#16

In the meantime, there’s lots of searchable information (articles, forum discussions, mic manufacturers’ resources) on options for micing upright pianos. E.g., Sound On Sound, GearSlutz, DPA…Have fun! My preference is to mic the soundboard from the back of the piano, but that’s for a piano performance sound, not for sampling mechanical sounds. Of course, can’t do this if piano is against a wall…

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#17

Not really a direct answer to your question but just a tip that comes to mind - you can get great deals on really old pianos if you can find them. I have a Steinway upright from the 1890s which has been lightly restored. It looks and sounds great, and it’s much more unique/interesting looking to my eyes than almost any piano made in the last 50 years, plus it feels like owning a bit of history. That being said old pianos need to be tuned a bit more often.

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#18

I’ve found that for miking the “goddamn” variety of squirrels, definitely you want an omni with good high frequency extension :wink:

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#19

Most excellent advice.

#20

I’ll share my setup/approach which is ever-changing as I’m always learning ways to improve, but anyway

Step one is figuring out the space-

I have a fairly well-isolated studio as far as external noise, and a pretty dead room with lots of absorption as far as internal. I have sort of a poor-man’s live-end-dead-end thing going on acoustically and the piano is in the “live” section (which is still fairly dead as it’s a low-ceiling bedroom). I had some leftover absorption material when I was setting up the space, and the piano was feeling a bit muddy since it sits in a corner, so I wrapped a bunch of absorption material up in fabric and it lives on top of the piano essentially as a big bass trap.

The front cover hasn’t been on my upright in years- I always keep the strings exposed since I’m always playing with them, and it sounds better to record it with the cover off since it adds some clarity, much-needed volume when doing felted stuff, and you get all those fun mechanical noises.

As far as mics go, I’m not a wealthy man so atm I use Oktava 012’s, typically with the omni capsules though I have used the cardioid capsules from time to time if things are getting too messy with the room sound. Mic placement varies per track based on what register I’m playing in, if I’m single-felting or double-felting, how loud I’m playing, the dynamic range of the piece, etc.

Always an AB setup, and to find the right placement both left-right and front-back (relative to the piano) I’ll record a bunch of different placements, write them down, then pick which one I like best. Typically the mics are 10-18’’ apart from each other, and anywhere from ~10-24’’ away from the strings. I’ve found more often than not with my setup, the best sound a lot of the time is having the mics parallel with where my head is, but again this could be wildly different for you depending on all these variables. As far as placing the PAIR left-right, I usually dictate that by what register I’m playing in and set up the mics on the left and right bounds of that (it’s rare that I’m playing way up and down the keyboard).

Because these mics/my room aren’t the best though, I typically process the shit out of things and have to spend a lot of time EQ’ing, often pretty heavy-handed, to get things sounding clearer. This is often a lot of surgical subtractive EQ in the low-mids, and some boost in the highs to bring out the mechanical sounds. And if going for that intimate felty sound, obviously compression is a must, but I have no set-rule for how I do that as it can change a lot based on the track, just use your ear :sunglasses: the only constant is cranking the makeup gain a bit since the compression is typically pretty heavy and the source sound is fairly quiet to begin with. I use Fabfilter plugins (for basically everything) but you could achieve the same effect with whatever.

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#21

Regarding mics, I can HIGHLY recommend a pair of Soyuz 013 FET mics. If you can swing it, I’m sure the tube versions are even better but I absolutely love the pair that I have on pretty much everything I’ve used them on (flute, piano, reverberant claps, vibraphone, drum overheads, etc).

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#22

This sounds like the most lines buddy movie :heart:

You should totally document this piano quest!

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#23

As an aside, thank you so much for starting this thread Matt! I learned so much for when I one day buy a piano <3

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#24

When in doubt, ask Lines!

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#25

And now I’m looking at 120 year old pianos on ebay.

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#26

I forgot to mention my other pro tip - don’t skimp on the bench! Personally I’d be happier with a $2000 piano and an $800 bench than a $2700 piano and a $100 bench. Your butt and your back (and eventually, your technique) will thank you.

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#27

gonna piggyback off this thread to ask here if anyone has any tips and things to look out for when buying a secondhand rhodes? :musical_keyboard:

#28

I’m just getting into a rhodes rehab project myself, so I’m learning as I go, but there’s a good guide here of stuff to look out for.

main thing to look out for are structural issues or broken things that will ultimately be expensive to replace (tines, pickups, keys). there are good places to get parts for nearly everything, if you’re willing to go in and fix stuff.

#29

No first hand experience, but I’ve heard that mark II’s are more likely to have pickup issues, where replacing them requires winding a single pickup for each replacement. So if you find a mark II with output individual note output issues, keep in mind it may be a labor intensive restoration (just as many factors of a mechanical instrument otherwise could be).

#30

If anyone in the Bay Area is looking for a piano, PM me. I have a ten-year-old upright that is taking up way too much space.

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#31

I highly recommend Larry Fine’s “The Piano Book” for general info on quality of different brands, price ranges, tips for owning.

I embarked on a similar quest in late 2019. After a lot of research and trying a ton of different things in stores I went with the tallest, best Yamaha upright I could find. Could have probably saved a lot of money on something used, but I don’t have any regrets.

Having a piano throughout the last few months of stay-at-home life has been amazing. I just wish I didn’t share walls with neighbors - a lot of the time I play with the practice pedal on, it feels rude to practice loudly every day.

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#32

Hey!
I’m in the exact same process as you are right now and have been going deep and almost making a decision and then circling back to the start again. Originally my search began for a Yamaha U3. I run a recording studio/creative retreat in Ontario and the familiarity and reliability of the U series seemed like a great idea. Then, looking in the $4-$6k range I started to see some older, lesser known, baby grands and so I started to lust after having a grand in the studio. I currently have a Yamaha CP-70 that I’ve used on a lot of productions and love but it’s not a real piano. I got close to firing on a couple baby grands. At least, I got close to going to try them. Haha. Covid has made it very difficult to just drive around trying pianos so I’ve been doing a lot of mental shopping in the mean time. Last week I found a shop that carries pretty much every U series Yamaha ever made. U3’s of different eras, U1’s… etc. Their prices are reasonable, the pianos come with a 10-year warranty, and they’re used to shipping pianos. I’m now on the fence between buying a Yamaha U Series again, after I go and try 10 different U3’s and U1’s, quite confident that one will sound right for my studio, and waiting out for that unique, used grand that might be perfect for me and will be a calling card for the studio. I am leaning to the Yamahas currently as my lack of piano tech knowledge has me finding a lot of comfort in the 10 year warranty, as well as the buyer protection of purchasing with Visa, etc. I’ve found Piano World a great website to ask questions about older makes and vintages too if you find something that looks like it might be magical for you. Good luck! It’s an intense purchase and such a pain in the arse to move that you want to get it as right as possible.

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#33

Depends on what you want. Had a old 70s era Acrosonic for years that served me well. Think I paid like $400 for it.

Acros are (in the scheme of things) pretty bright pianos. But sturdy and, for lack of a better term, big sounding for the $$$. And you can find them on CL in pretty much every city in the land. Finding one that’s been well maintained…

Then I moved cities and decided the cost of moving the piano prob wasn’t worth the schlepp. So at the suggestion of an actual player friend of mine, I ended up going to a piano dealer here and learned (for better or worse) about how better pianos sound. I’m no piano player. I can do a bunch of Neil Young songs. And started working through some Scarlatti sonatas, but no Gould here. Hearing someone that PLAYS the piano go check candidates out is definitely the way to go!

Ended up with a early 80s Baldwin upright. Was about 3 times as much as I was hoping to spend. But she’s a lifetimer and sounds as close to a grand as any upright I’ve ever heard. Nice dark, thick sound. And records very well with a pair of SDCs.

Yamahas are nice pianos. Typically a little darker than their Baldwin equivalents. And I love their “dark” pedal. Thinking about having a tech put something similar on my Baldwin for recording, which is easy enough.

There are cheaper options out there. For me, I got sick of the hunt and just bit the bullet. But I’m certain if I had another year of digging I could have spent about half as much. But my GAS is consuming enough as it is.

Good luck!

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#34

Just want to second picking up an Acrosonic if you find one. They’re wonderful pianos. That said if you have the space for it, I’d recommend picking up a proper upright or maybe a 70’s baby grand from Yamaha if you have the space!

Spinets like the acrosonic are wonderful in part because they’re compact (for pianos anyway) but as I understand it, this can make them more difficult to tune.

#35

Here’s too much opinion-polluted info for you so please take the below with many grains of salt!
I second - hugely - having professionals move the piano in, and consulting with a local piano tech.
Also getting good feedback on WHERE you put the piano in your home is absolutely critical for the instrument’s performance and survival over time.
Older Steinway uprights sometimes show up for surprisingly low dollars (low in context of course) and are often REALLY good. But even with Steinway you have to be careful - there are a few Steinway uprights that just plain suck (I had one of those lemons many years ago. Another Steinway upright, though, was one of the best upright pianos I’ve ever played)). If you have space, look at baby grands too - the action of a grand is much different and for most people much more satisfying and ergonomically sound.
But the key thing is to play whatever you are thinking of buying - and ideally bring a seasoned pianist or tuner in to do so and weigh in as well.
In addition to paying attention to the action (ON every note and across the full range) check for any odd noises made by keys, playing at a variety of dynamics and speeds (down to verrrrrry soft and slow).
It’s a tough time to buy a piano. Even a digital one let alone an acoustic. IT’s SO important to spend time playing the exact instruments you are considering. And IMO it’s always better to buy a used piano that’s already broken in - but that’s especially tough during Covid.
Also remember opinions on what constitutes a good piano involve a HUGE amount of personal taste. Example: I have a strong bias against Yamaha pianos (too many years in practice rooms with brash sounding and mushy playing Yamahas) while some love them. But I do think the U series is a good value and if I was shopping now I’d definitely at least consider one. I would, however, avoid the Yamaha P series.
Another often overlooked brand (used only) is Mason Hamlin.
I would resist the temptation to buy a “Hybrid” as a compromise between digital and acoustic. The actions are really noisy, and in my experience it doesn’t bring you any closer to that physical connection you state you’re after.
It’s probably worth getting some advice on the PianoWorld forums - though the focus there is starting to shift to digital.
Apologies for verbosity, as a former piano teacher it’s a subject I get a little too excited about. And caveat: I haven’t been a piano teacher for a very long time, and currently only have a digital (on about the 5th model and still seeking one that doesn’t drive me insane. Though on the sound level, I’m in that minority of pianists that LOVE Pianoteq, even though I’ve yet to find a controller or digital piano-as-controller that feels good with it.)
There’s nothing like an acoustic piano. There are no keyboard actions on digital / controllers that come close to a good acoustic, and that physical connection to the sound is pure magic.

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