Well I need some of that today, thanks for the tip.

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Four Tet’s RBMA lecture on his live set is absolutely essential viewing on this topic, as far as I’m concerned:

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Him going crazy with that mouse is too good.

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on his last few album tours panda bear has been using two octatracks with the channels/stems split out to a big mixer in the middle and some effects units on sends. sorta like an advanced dj setup.
in the early days he would do the same thing with two sp-303 samplers and a mixer. i saw an old video where he’d transition to a new song, then turn off the sp-303 that wasn’t in use and swap out the smartmedia card.

side note: maybe the topic title should change to just be about playing live? i kinda feel weird mentioning someone i really admire, and who has lots of talent, in a thread called “how to play live without much talent”

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This isn’t a technological subject IMHO… whatever instrumental technology you go with, just use it a lot. (Also known as practice.) I think the most important thing is to focus on listening. You’ll find plenty of naysayers when it comes to simple playback of studio music, but presenting previously recorded music to an audience is NOT A CRIME. It’s lame if you pretend to be doing something you’re not while it plays, and IMHO sometimes just tweaking a layer of FX to give you something to do while it plays is also a little lame… unless it sounds good. :slight_smile: If you’re bored by simple playback, then experiment and see what you can arrive at that feels fun and interesting and also sounds good. Above all, if you’re just making excuses to look like you’re doing something I think that’s approaching it from the wrong angle. Focus on how it sounds, and how fun or interesting it is for you to do.

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totally agree, I hesitated to reply in the thread for the same reason. maybe something like “how to play live without traditional instruments” or something simpler/more general?

There’s so much that can be done creatively using aux sends and ‘playing’ a mixer.

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i think it’s about what material you want to present. i don’t really care how performative a uh performance is if good work is hitting my ears. i’m not gonna dock you points for mixing between semi-prepared/prepared material if you mix it well and it’s well constructed.

id rather see you sit there with a laptop and a mixer and give me something compelling for 30 minutes than see you flail at a really sick setup man and it’s more about the gear and the flailing than what i hear.

play to yr strengths

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To be honest I don’t think there will be a hardware that can replace laptop. I have been searching for such thing for few years and my personal conclusion is: if you want to play music live compose it with that in mind. For example try to play some of the parts “live” while composing a track or automate effects by hand using midi controllers or leave some room for improvisation. I have an octatrack but I think it is best used to “destroy” source audio and create something completely new from it than triggering samples as they were recorded.

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There was a thread about the Akai Force, which is immediately what came to mind while reading this thread. I dunno if anyone has actually engaged it yet, but seems like a solid no-laptop approach that could probably integrate with other gear if you want to work with audio stems.

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I don’t know if this will be much help, but I wrestled with this question for years. Honestly, I gave up and went back to playing the guitar.

What I’ve realized over time is that every instrument is a compromise. Nothing can do everything. The guitar you can play any note you want at any time, you have physical contact with the strings, you can play chords but not too complicated. Piano you can play any note you want at any time, no physical contact with the strings (usually) but you can play very complex chords. Saxophone, you can play any note at any time, you have physical contact with that note, but you can only play one note at a time (for the most part).

Following from this, any “electronic” instrument is a decision about what compromises you are willing to make, what your priorities are about the sounds that you make and how you make them. With Live you can play any sound at any time, but usually you have to preplan when that time is, and you can only use a sound that is ready to go (if you narrow down to a sampler getting midi from a clip). You can have a synth set to any sound, and you can play notes with your midi keyboard, but you can’t play your drum machine too. Would it be cheating to play the keys and not the drums? How about the drums and not the keys? What about the bass line? You choose how this book ends.

Another question, do DJs cheat people? The answer is yes and no, it depends on the context and what you’re expecting out of it. Is a DJ more or less versatile than a house band?

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First thing i thought of. Of course, the familiarity of the audience with payoff ‘hooks’ will depend entirely on the visibility of each artist. I like this method though and i’m a nothing.

You might consider this: The listener’s context will change how they perceive the music, and hence what you need to do as a musician to convey musically.

Someone listening to a recording on headphones will be tuned to just the sound itself. And as such, one way to approach that as a musician is to spend the time to refining the tracks. Multiple takes, careful EQ, subtle mixing choices, mastering… all go into it because the listener will hear it.

On the other hand, an audience member at a live performance generally has different stance with respect to the music: The sense of “now” is heightened, the social aspect of deliberate listening (or dancing) with others, and auditory experience is different (and generally much more forgiving). As a musician, this means that the subtle EQ choice isn’t going to come through much - whereas playing to the feelings of the group will. The boldness of your performance pushing the music (bolder… more ambient… faster… slower… whatever) will be more in the audience’s mind - and imperfections (or, gasp, wrong notes, mistakes…) will often hardly register.

Of course, I’ve drawn two extremes - a live concert in a shushed concert hall has a different vibe (and far different audience expectation), than an experimental music night at a warehouse. Listening on high end headphones in the livingroom is different than the background music at a dinner party.

In summary - If you want to perform your music live - you should reconsider your concept of “perfect”. Think about the context in which you’ll be playing live, and the way the audience will be approaching the act of listening. “Perfect” for that context is quite different than “perfect” in your studio.

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Beautiful reply. In my head I am stuck with the octatrack as the “perfect” machine to do this. I am buying one

I just love the simplicity, clarity and wisdom of this. Over and over I find that great insights are rarely complicated, yet too often our view gets blurred.

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There’s nothing wrong with playing back clips but I would also listen back to the set and see if there’s any lead lines or parts you could recreate on a midi controller or other instrument. Jamming is ok but if there’s something that already works in the track, it’s fine to play that existing part.
One of my favorite live sets ever was a Shigeto set where he played drums over a backing track and triggered occasional samples and played synths very once in a while. Even though a lot of the songs didn’t have drums on the record it added something to have him physically contributing to the sound. Not sure why but there’s something that audiences latch onto when they perceive that you’re putting in some form of effort to crest what they’re hearing.
If all else fails though, dance a little to fill the gaps where you have nothing to do.

I think this is a good example - Flore- she adds things live to her mostly polished ableton stems.

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I think there’s a lot of nice thinking here :ok_hand:

Without being technical - I also realised that there’s a limit to what two hands and ten fingers can do. I also want two things - to be reasonably confident I can give the audience a good experience, and to have a small amount of freeness. I also want something to ensure I don’t rush if it’s a big (for me) event.

That’s taken me to where I have a combination of stems, pre- configured patches, a fair bit of automation coming out of live into modular, and loads of controls. I rehearse the controls and refine the control ranges. A lot.

Then, when I’m playing, I can forget all that and respond to my ears - with 3% of my brain fixing on where I am in the timeline.

I imagine that I’ll do something more involved in the future, but TBH most of the tippy-top shows I’ve been to are similar or even less complicated. Tech issues kill a vibe, even if the audience is friendly - and aside from that, the music shouldn’t be infringed on by the setup.

That’s where I’m at now, anyway. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Great thread! Recently I’ve be zeroing in on a set of ios tools that cover a lot of ground between play back, generative and live manipulation all in sync with 2 rows of modular.
ios host - AUM
Playback/live manipulation - DJDJ
Clock sync - MIDI Link Sync
Generative/live manipulation - Borderlands, Samplr, Drambo and a 6U Modular (mostly Pittsburgh)
Mixing/live manipulation - Analog mixer with pedals (delay & reverb) in aux send configuration.

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Is that the Generator and Expander behind a single faceplate, way over on the left in the bottom row? I didn’t know they made it that way.