If not a mod wheel, what?

korikhal · 2024-06-10T20:12:29.441Z

Cool cool cool. Appreciate your thoughts

ciso · 2024-06-10T23:29:58.343Z

20 characters of D-Beam!

Curious_Alchemy · 2024-06-11T02:16:36.152Z

So, I can’t say that I like this because I’ve never tried it. I’ve never seen them on controllers either, but I think it’s a cool Idea that I’ll try when I build the synth or controller I’m surely never going to build.
Roller balls.

korikhal · 2024-06-11T02:27:39.818Z

Like a trackball? That’s interesting… I just had a look, and there’s some with thin bases. One of the things I like about mod wheels is that the physical “point of contact” always stays in one place - ditto for trackballs. Plus you get another dimension. Interesting thought!

widdly · 2024-06-11T02:32:07.287Z

The Kaos pad x-y thing is my favourite. Perhaps you could use COTS laptop touch pads. The leds under the kaos pad are handy for knowing where it is set, especially when the hold button is pressed.

I also like the log wheel on the korg prophecy. It had seperate x+, x- parameters on the wheel then y and z(touch) on the strip controller. It had hold buttons too, to latch parameters when you let go.

I guess I like multiple parameters with one controller. The metasurface in Audio multch takes this idea to another level.

Curious_Alchemy · 2024-06-11T02:56:38.085Z

Yes, precisely!
I imagine something heavier and with more friction than the trackball on my mouse, for example, but I think it would be really fun.

corpusjonsey · 2024-06-11T03:09:31.666Z

X/Y joystick? Some keyboards had em.

korikhal · 2024-06-11T03:17:46.167Z

Korg Prophecy! That was a gutsy move for them.

It’s easy to do a mousepad-like surface if it’s opaque - I’ll look into how hard it is to go transparent for the LED
Kaos underglow. I guess a repurposed touchscreen overlay?

Thanks for the AudioMulch Metasurface tip - I’ve never seen that before! And I hadn’t thought of hold buttons.

Starthief · 2024-06-12T03:30:35.598Z

No-spring joysticks and touch strips are great.

Expression pedals! I just replaced a dead Line6 FBV Express with an Audiofront MIDI Expression Quattro and 3x Nektar NX-P. I just recorded somethinf this evening where I was playing Arturia Synclavier V, one pedal assigned to FM depth and two to transpose the “chorus” voice to different intervals. I thought I’d basically always slam the pitch pedals to full, but I wound up doing some slower slides and intermediate intervals… fun stuff

korikhal · 2024-06-13T01:56:37.114Z

Yes, 100% it’s getting at least two pedal jacks!

Thanks for speaking up for touch strips and joysticks - it’s natural for people who dislike a thing to talk more about it than people who like that thing - it’s hard to get a bead.

110 · 2024-06-13T02:23:09.225Z

a touch strip could give visual feedback about the current value, just like an encoder.

korikhal · 2024-06-13T02:38:44.702Z

Right, like a strip of lights along the side (or lit up from underneath)?

What I’m not sure about is losing the ability to nudge it - if you press exactly where you left off you can do that, but then you have to look, and if you press somewhere different it will jump straight to that value.

But, maybe that’s a good thing? Some people say that they like to be able to “jump around” like that - not everything wants smooth transitions.

Though I suppose I could make the touch strip relative, like a track pad. I.e. it doesn’t care where you touch it, only the movements you make afterward. I guess that would act just like a mod wheel.

I wonder why I’ve never heard of anyone doing that before?

110 · 2024-06-13T02:56:37.972Z

i´ve “invented” the “endless fader” a decade ago but failed making a proper prototype, and you can find many DIY examples (or even a few industry products) out there today which come up with controls like that.

a relative relative is easy to implement*), thats just a little change in the firmware, and when you have a relative mode that feel exactly like nudging - i.e. when you operate it, you do not really notice that you would not even need to try to fetch it where it stands, you just do it and it works.

the whole system is basically like any digitally controlled rotary encoder also works.

the bigger problem is that you can hardly give such a non-physical endless fader the option to center or reset (for example at 0db for a mixer fader) without adding an extra control (like a small [ALT] pad for the thumb or whatever)

*)
imho one should take the chance and allow both modes, relative (adding) and absolute (set new value directly by a single click.) because what, if not different operation modes, is the strength of non-physical controllers?

wakyct · 2024-06-13T03:08:38.859Z

korikhal:

I wonder why I’ve never heard of anyone doing that before?

I’m not sure this is exactly like you’re talking about, but on the Linnstrument (a grid of continuous pads) there are various operations which involve swiping across a row of pads (or rows of pads, like a kind of touch screen) to change a value, and you don’t have to accurately start on a particular pad for it to work.

(edit: sorry, I see you mentioned the Linnstrument in your OP!)

korikhal · 2024-06-13T03:25:33.523Z

You’re right, though, that is relative and I hadn’t thought of that aspect of the Linnstrument.

I’m starting to wonder if maybe this is a done thing but I just happen to have never run into a keyboard that does it.

TanaBarbier · 2024-06-13T04:27:39.702Z

I like the idea of a XY pad with a few buttons to change mode : absolute, relative, spring (comes back to 0 with or without a “release” time), and why not a record function to loop a movement…

110 · 2024-06-14T20:59:13.893Z

relative/“nudge” is of course only an option when there is a digital chip involved somewhere.

korikhal · 2024-06-14T22:48:15.399Z

Agreed, and in this particular case there’s a microcontroller handling it all, so NP.

I just noticed that I overlooked your other comment - do you happen to remember where you’ve seen this sort of relative touchstrip implemented in a commercial product?

And yeah, I feel like “getting lost” is the big UX concern here. I was thinking the most bare-bones solution is to limit it at the top (e.g. max 127), and have an LED that lights up when it’s back at 0, so you’ve got a reference point. Obvs a bunch of LEDs for the whole value range would be preferable, though.

IOSISdrone · 2024-06-14T23:47:50.811Z

I’ve got an Osmose and I’m quite fond of the faders.

110 · 2024-06-15T00:31:43.192Z

not sure about a specific product, but in this context i also saw some mini sized touch displays used like that already 10 years ago. that might be a supercool option in a music instrument, too, at least when you do not want to limit yourself to 7 bit resolution.
with displays you basically only develope a software, the tool itself can be ordered from a shanghai plant.

and yes, a special LED for min or max reached already solves that problem. as long as visual feedback is given, we do not need to care how the clipping is actually done or where the finger has to be.