#237

I actually just went through this same thing concerning my old Teac reel to reel. It’s unbalanced RCA ins and outs and I have it connected to my balanced patchbay. I mostly send audio from Ableton to and from it. I found that it was distorting on the way in and needed a lot of gain on the way out. So my results were often distorted and noisy. I bought the ART Cleanbox Pro to deal with this. Now I have Balanced TRS out of my patchbay going into the XLR inputs of the Cleanbox. Then the unbalanced RCA’s from the Cleanbox to the RCA inputs of the Reel to Reel. Totally solved my problems. Got it for just 40 bucks on eBay too!

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#238

I also have a Rev2 and didnt even realize it was unbalanced outs. I have it connected to my balanced patchbay using balanced TRS cables and everything seems perfectly fine.

#239

Well that is the frustration of ground loops. They are actually very complicated and highly dependent on the electrical environment of your studio.

If you are ever down for some light reading: https://web.mit.edu/jhawk/tmp/p/EST016_Ground_Loops_handout.pdf

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#240

Me after an evening of looking for ground loop when I just wants-ta jam.

image

But in all seriousness, I have a noise problem that comes and goes. I suspect it is the heating element in my dishwasher. But when that noise is present, recording is just off the table.

13 Likes
#241

How do you guys deal with low signal like sounds from kalimba? Today I tried mic with it by using Rode NT4 and Mixpre-6. My Mixpre set to 38dB gain, but it the volume didn’t get to -20dB even I put my kalimba close.

#242

Here’s something huge I learned recently. I process external audio through my modular all of the time and I’ve always struggled with getting proper gain staging. I have some Ladik modules for sending line level audio in and out of the modular. I also have a send/return for guitar pedals. I would frequently have distortion and noise problems so I emailed Ladik and this is what they had to say:

“Eurorack standards defines quite low headroom, “normal” level is ±5V(peak-peak) and power supply allows max. level around ±10V, this is only 6dB headroom.
So if your sound source is not quite perfectly steady (say within 3dB) it will be tough to establish a reasonable level with any of pre-amplifiers…”

I’m not really sure I full understand how the power effects the headroom but the fact that Eurorack does have very little headroom explains a lot of my gain staging issues.

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#243

Have you tried any other mics? Are you sure you have the mixpre channel set to mic and not line level? I don’t have any issues recording my kalimba with a dynamic mic, so the signal should be hot enough with a stereo condenser.

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#244

My latest personal insights:

  1. audio converter from same year&price dont differ too much in terms of sound. I have made a blind test with bbface/axe2/er301 and sent samples to my friends. No difference except some noise that 301 gets being patched from different case.
    Some $$$-interface with transformers can add some difference but I can do it myself with rack/500 gear before interfaces. To be honest I thought that different will be bigger for my ears.

  2. unwanted noise is evil. From some bad designed euro modules, ground loop. Even if s/n is big, noise is very unwanted in pauses between sound. This noise is very hard to transparently remove even with pro-plugins like RX and need a time. Try to fix most of the causes of noise.

Think again about switching from portable euro case to 1 big studio case with linear psus.

#245

Yes, this sounds maybe weird. With highly dynamic percussion sources like kalimba or shakers, around 30-40dB of gain would be perfect to achieve a good digital level without clipping. But it will totally depend on the sensitivity of the mics. KM84s into TG2 pre here.

1 Like
#246

would the NT4 be running on a dying battery instead of 48V from the Mixpre ?
In many condenser mics, insufficient phantom power results in very low levels.

#247

Thanks for doing this! it was really instructive for me to get a sense of the way these pieces can color a mix. Also, cool track. Is the final somewhere?

1 Like
#248

Thanks for all your words.

The NT4 is powered by 48V on Mixpre-6 and set to Mic In and linking 1 & 2. Gain set to 38dB. Also I applied 80Hz low cut to eliminate potential unwanted room noise. I use Pro Tools.

Perhaps I will provide a sound clip to see what I got.

May I ask (newbie question), how you guys place your mic for kalimba? I tried with a very close distance (2 inches) but the sound isn’t natural at all. If 4 inches far the body resonance sound didn’t get in, and the recorded signal is weak too.

Thanks again.

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#249

For Kalimba I’d start at least a foot back, maybe two, but it’s really all about experimenting. Every room/kalimba/mic/pre combination is gonna act and sound differently.

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#250

Thanks! It’s on here:

Have learned sense I posted this that all these coloring agents really start to show when you push them (heavy input…actually guess I did know that at the time), or by running through a lot of times/running individual tracks through them so there’s a cumulative build up of the vibe they bring. It’s all so subtle, it’s really hard to do solid, very definitive a/b’ing.

I think another thing I’ve learned is what to listen to…a lot of these things are most about thickening low/low-mids and glueing them in to the track.

2 Likes
#251

Regarding the topic, lately I’ve been learning the basic/ fundamental on recording, mixing and mastering. Before that I shared my works on Soundcloud but do not care much about the quality, all clips are raw and DIY-ish. I’ve been collecting vinyl for about 10 years for genres included ambient, noise/ drone and experimental. This year my studio is all set, with some decent turntables and such, I realized how good an experimental record would sounds like, it is the things I’d never come up with before. It makes me want to do more on the sound quality (which before I thought is not important in such genres).

Few weeks ago I randomly watched a YouTube clips about re-amping Fairfield Circuitry Shallow Water and amazed by the sound he got by use of re-amp DI box. I have this pedal since day one it releases, love it for sure but I can never get it right and capture the beauty from DAW. This clips convinced me (even he’s not intended to) to get my very first DI box RNDI. At first glance, the sound improvement seems no difference, but soon realized the sound ‘density’ is way better, and not to mention the hi is more airy now.

Update on signal level on Mixpre with NT4:
:relaxed: Problem solved! It is because I only set 48V Phantom on Input 1, in fact I need to set it on both Input 1 and 2. However with this setting the red LED on the mic is unlit. Anyway the level is work as normal now.

1 Like
#252

Though I am not sure about what you said (I am so weak on those dBV, dBu stuffs, confused to apply these into real world application) I kinda feel the same thing. Lately I realized that something like Mannequins RIP (or other output modules) does help to level matching, i.e.

Modular signal > Mannequins RIP > Line level > Pre amp

compare with-

Modular signal > Pre amp with signal attenuated by fader/ gain trim

At first glance both have the same result, but I found the former one can have a better control for dynamic range, besides you can route the signal to other outboard gears (for example pedals) ‘properly’.

I am still experimenting the way to do it right, please feel free to share! Thanks.

#253

lately ive become somewhat obsessed with recording very quiet sounds. i play guitar fingerstyle and like the sound of a mic that isnt close to the source. the problem one quickly runs into is the noisefloor. i recently picked up an inline preamp and got to musing about the difference between

1: inline preamp → preamp
2: preamp → preamp

one difference i notice is that the impedance matching could be different. a fethead has 22k input impedance which is meant to unload the mic. im wondering is chaining preamps would provide a accurate high gain setting with a more loaded mic?

most of my preamps are 1.2k input but in both scenarios if the preamps outputs have lower output impedances it would cause an impedance mismatch on the input of the second gainstage/preamp.

1 Like
#254

They didn’t mention the output impedance on the output, but I believe it don’t change much since both the mic and the FetHead have relatively low Z, and also many mic pres has Z somewhat between 1.5 - 2k Ohms.

I have several FetHeads, I think it can give you a little bit of gain, but it isn’t a clean gain to me. I would suggest if you encounter noise floor, maybe it is coming from you mic and/ or your end pre, it couldn’t solve this problem by adding a FetHead.

#255

I play quiet finger style acoustic too, and have no problems recording noise free, from up to a meter away, with just a mic (KM84) and a pre (TG2). I usually have 55-60dB of gain on the pre, less if strumming. And the KM84 is far from a modern, low noise mic, its self-noise is 17.0 dB(A).

If it was me, I’d probably be looking at investing in a mic with lower self noise, rather than spending more on inline boxes or pres. I’ve heard a few people say those inline boxes add more noise than a good pre, but I haven’t tried any myself, because have never needed them!

I’d never daisy chain a pre, how would that work? Mic level to line level with the first pre, then line level into the next pre input? Wouldn’t that be asking for trouble?

4 Likes
#256

Circling back on this. I did some experiments with my own preamps that were consistent with the findings demonstrated in this video: Got Clean Preamps? Do You Need An Inline Amp? Sound Speeds - YouTube Which to summarize is: inline preamps only meaningfully improve the noise performance of bad preamps.

I tried putting a DIYRE CP5 preamp on the insert of my SSL Six channel. Tried several different gain combinations on both and found that there was no meaningful improvement when using two preamps in the noise floor or SNR. I think the reason is that noise is coming from the microphone. In my case I was just using a trusty SM58.

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