Improving the signal chain

[idioteque]

@Jfkimmedy

I’d try some softube saturation knob or Klanghelm IVGI or Soundtoys little radiator.

Also, I cannot recommend enough Kelvin!

[_mark]

I bought a second hand Phonic Celeus Tube mixer a while back - a small mixer with optional tube output. Worth looking out for as it works fine with euro levels. The sound difference is subtle, but there. I always wanted on of the Black Market DIYRE colour palette modules for this… shame they don’t make them anymore.

[Gregg]

Yeah software is good enough for “vibe” these days, for me at least, in a mastering context. I add a little bit here and there in the chain. I usually use a combo of TDR Slick EQ M (has interesting low and high frequency sat options), Softube Chandler Germ Comps (overall vibe, bounce and glue), ToneProjects Kelvin (fantastic “box tone” sat), MAAT FiDef (weird added correlated noise) and Ploytec Aroma (final analogue style shine) for subtle ITB saturation, if needed.

For me at least, it’s worth spending money on hardware at the beginning and end of the chain (room, instruments, mics, pres, and speakers), but with all that in-between mixing and mastering process it is fine to stay ITB. Remember a round trip DAC/outboard/ADC/DAC loop will also likely add coloration that you have zero control over.

[whisper3000]

@anon60283851

Home tube preamps are supposed to sound clean (eg. so that when you run a full finished stereo mix from a record through it to the power amp, it doesn’t sound very audibly overdriven, hence with less complex signals it ought to be even less audible a difference)

Thank you for clarifying this. It makes sense, and now I see that I would probably be wasting my $100 on one of these.

@Jfkimmedy

There are many good, affordable saturation/tube plugins out there that do a well enough job imo.

Thanks to everyone for replying to my post.

I appreciate all the plugin suggestions, but part of what makes my modest hardware setup so enjoyable is that I don’t have to look at a screen. I spend too much time (like right now!) on my phone or at my keyboard.

I think, at the moment, I will stick to a simple in-the-rack end of chain. Hopefully someday I will stumble across a suitcase stuffed with cash and I can pick up a Heat or a BOUM.

[tehn]

not sure if it’s been mentioned before, but i just discovered https://www.roomeqwizard.com which is a cross-platform audio analysis package

(my use case is calibrating circuits but it does more)

[Markus]

It’s fantastic for room acoustics measurements, especially identifying room modes etc

[janglesoul]

Hi there,
recently I’ve been experimenting with Neve preamp clones for vocal recording. These preamps have been without built-in EQ. Yet, they have TRS insert jacks on the back for connecting a hardware eq.

My question: What is the benefit of using an EQ on an insert on the preamp compared to connecting the preamp and EQ in series (in-line)?

Thanks!

[graymazes]

you get to put the EQ between the gain stage and the output transformer (+metering, +whatever else is on the output stage)

(presumably, i haven’t seen a block diagram of the clone)

[Happyanimal1]

That would essentially be the same as using insert. Keep in mind if you only have a single TRS jack for both insert send and return that would be an unbalanced connection.

[janglesoul]

Thanks @graymazes and @Happyanimal1 – I understand that you put the eq inbetween the input and output transformers, but in general – would it result in a specific sonic benefit, or is it more a way to more correctly mimic how the channel strip normally would work on a big console?

[graymazes]

again i do not have a block diagram of the device you’re using so i am half blind in this conversation.

does it matter whether the EQ is before or after the output amp / transformer? yes. is it a subtle distinction? yes. is it better for you? i have no idea.

if you are in the habit of driving the output transformer hard to use its coloration, it will make a difference; if the output stage is transparent it basically won’t.

if you use EQ in to boost frequencies and define the character of the sound in a non-subtle way, then it will certainly make a difference and you probably do want EQ first.

if you use EQ to cut frequencies to “fix” or “tame” the character of a sound, then it may matter less and you may prefer to EQ later in the chain.

maybe just get an EQ module and try things out; it’s nice to have both options.

[janglesoul]

Thanks @graymazes – for a generous explanation of the principles! Just what I needed to get my head around things.

[crunchydrums]

Have been making effort to use effects on sends, mixed in parallel, but this makes me want to do a lot more serial processing on everything.

If nothing else, so that the whole sound just goes through more converters at the very least. Effects being applied to effected sound multiple times is obviously a less subtle thing but similar ethos.

I saw a blawan masterclass where he did sound design by just sending beating sine waves thru a ton of filters/saturation units, so obviously not just a mixing thing but can be applied everywhere.

[Ithacus]

Does anyone know of a stereo in/out bypass looper/switcher that will work at line level?

Just something simple (but good quality) that can be used to bypass a send and return to a processor (in this case Norns).

Context is I’m using the Bus B output on the SSL B6 (channels are summed and sent to Bus B while muted) as a bus for external processing and looping (with the return coming back into one of the external Stereo Ins on B6).

I want to be able to switch in/out Norns from this Bus, and I can’t seem to find anything that is stereo in and out… and most stuff seems aimed at guitarists (so mono in/out).

I could probably build something (would need a 4PDT switch) but I don’t have the time at the moment… and would be happy to pay for a good quality solution!

Thought this might be something others here have experienced and have found a good ‘off the shelf’ solution for!

[Glamaig]

Hosa SLW-333 is what I use for exactly this

[Ithacus]

Thanks but I think that is a switcher (switch between 3 stereo sources to 1 stereo output) rather than bypass looper?

A bypass looper needs in, out and send and return jacks.

I’m looking for something like this but fully stereo (and preferably good for line level):

[anon60283851]

I was just going to suggest going for American Loopers because almost everyone here is from US by default, but seeing you’re from UK, try mailing Bright Onion pedals? They make a lot of passive / simple loopers, even custom ones, and they might put one together for you.

[kza]

Maybe something like the Eventide Mixing Link?

Eventide Mixing Link Mic Preamp

[Ithacus]

Hey thanks for the ideas guys

Had a look at Bright Onion and they do every type of looper it seems… except stereo I/O.

The Eventide looks great but unfortunately is Mono (also I don’t need a mic pre).

There really does seem to be a lack of something like this for stereo applications.

Finally Found this and it looks like it might do the job (assuming if it is buffered it can handle line levels), all the jacks are on TRS so it is stereo In/Out and stereo loop.
Minimal Series Stereo 1Loop Box (OC-M-ST1L ) – One Control USA (one-control.com)

[anon60283851]

FWIW if you want a simple passive one, I’m not sure if the One Control one is such or not, I’ve also good experiences of Saturnworks and I think they shipped to EU pretty inexpensively way back at least: True Bypass Looper | Saturnworks Pedals | Crafted in California

(They seem to have a true stereo looper in the variants - both normal one with dual TS jack pairs, and compact one with TRS jacks)

I think Bright Onion does custom things as well so might be worth mailing if they could do a simple stereo model as they’re more local to you. Only anything “custom” might cost more than it’s worth I guess.