#104

Based on some of the gear you listed that you have and are considering, you seem to have a budget for high end stuff. What about Elysia for coloring / character? Their XPressor is also a highly regarded stereo compressor. In a similar vein, I recently built up a pair of hairball audio lola mic preamps and plunked them in the small case from DIYrecordingequipment.com (they also could have some stuff that you might be interested in). These preamps are meant to be more transparent than characterful, which would put them in line with API 512, I think. To be frank, they’re probably too transparent for me to really tell anything, but I think they make a difference. I’d say in general, since putting them into service, my recordings are sounding cleaner, and fuller. That could all be in my head, however! At any rate, I’d venture to say that you are already light years ahead of a lot of the rest of us when it comes to a quality signal chain.

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#105

Thanks for the reply. The Xpressor was on my radar for a while. I think it looks like a quality compressor, quite versatile, and QUITE affordable. But I wouldn’t necessarily put it in the “colored” category. More in the utilitarian side I would say. But I think it would thrive at that.

I’m pretty close to pulling the trigger on a stereo pair of Distressors. Just seems like the most affordable/versatile option for a stereo mix without going into insane $$$ territory.

Honestly I was pretty torn between the Distressors, a UBK Fatso, or a pair of Retro Doublewides. Fatso is tempting (2 channels…a little cheaper than 2 Distressors), but I’ve heard different opinions on whether it really qualifies as a compressor, or more akin to the Overstayer MAS2 mentioned earlier. So I think the Distressors will be a safer bet for tracking. But I do think the UBK Fatso would be sick on synths.

I’ve got a pair of CAPI on the way. If they are as good as everyone says, I’m pretty excited.

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#106

Ive recently got a pair of the louder than liftoff mister focus modules that each have 2 colour card slots… started of with the Royal blue(neve-ish) and Implode(1176 recreation) cards.

And gotta say i really dig the vibe! Its my frist time playing with transformer stuff and the implode is actually really really gr8…ive never heard compression quite like it. its like it imparts a movement in the dynamic of the track…I can hear now why the 1176 is such a staple… Ive since ordered a bunch more of the colour cards like the tube one and an api transformer type and now awaiting delivery. I believe they are working on an SSL G comp card as well.

Its early days but I feel like these are a lot of fun and give you alotta different flavours of high end analog audio processes for a fun price to boot. Im probs gonna get some Chroma preamps eventually
as they have the colour slots too…

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#107

Which CAPI preamps did you choose – they have so many different types!

#108

I got the VP28. Looks to be their take on a API 512v. Very glad to have had heard about these being well regarded. A friend mentioned them to me early on in my quest and I forgot about them until reading this thread. Basically cost anyone less than half as much as their API equivalent. The quest for a true analog stereo recording channel (pre/EQ/comp) isn’t for the faint of heart. Ugh. But if these things are as good as their reputation I’m def getting two of the EQs next.

Truthfully, I am still torn on the right direction to go with the comps. And there is no lack of options these days. Honestly I’m looking forward to finally being done LOOKING, and back to making some music. Enough is enough.

The Xpressor IS quite alluring. Price is right. Size is RIGHT (2 spaces in my 8 space lunchbox). Honestly I was about to do 2 channels of the Retro Doublewide but then half my 8 space rack would be gone.

Tempted to just go that route for my stereo channel and then have enough loot left over for a SUPER colored/ more $$$ mono comp like the Retro STA or even the CL1B. The sound of those 2 (STA & CL1B) on elec bass is hard to forget. But I’m thinking I could just go for a Warm WA2A and I’ll be 90% there for less than 1/3 the price.

Sometime I need to reality check myself that obsessing about having the best Phillips head screwdriver is kind of insane. If you have a sound in your head, 9/10 you can make it happen by not worrying about where the real deal’s knobs are set compared to a cheaper clones or even the plug in. There are so many upsides/downsides to deciding about these things…at some point you just got to pick one and commit.

Like I said earlier. I’m pretty convinced at this point that the plug ins out there will get you 80-90% of the way there. But I still can’t help but hear that annoying elusive 10% on most mic pres and a few tube based things (LA2s, CL1Bs and the like). Luckily those very expensive comps seem to shine the most on vocals and bass. I play bass a good amount. But my singing can’t be saved no matter how much I spend on a comp. If on the other hand either of those two really shined on synths…likely I’ll go down that rabbit hole again once I’m getting towards the mixing stages.

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#110

I recently read an old TapeOp interview with David Rawlings and Gillian Welch and the process for recording Time (The Revelator). In the interview, he recounts how he purchased an old BCM-10 Neve chassis and when they would come back from a tour, he would buy a module for it (Neve 1084). When they recorded … Revelator, he had not yet filled the chassis but they only needed 4 or 5 modules to get the job done so they were able to make-do. They recorded straight to 2" on a Studer A800 they pieced together over time. They used M 49 mics and a C37, primarily. When the album was complete, they mastered it straight from tape - no compression, EQ, etc.

Now, it helps to sing like Gillian and play like David (and have RCA studio B for your room) but that is amazing to me. Obviously, for an acoustic duo, this setup seems very appropriate and adequate but might not work for other genres or larger groups.

This just got me wondering if its time and money well spent to develop a great signal chain slowly rather than a more conventional approach (8-16 channels, generic preamps, generic EQs). I certainly don’t have $30-40k to roll up in a custom Neve console but I wonder if its worth it to start with a focused, high quality signal chain (even just 1 or 2 channels) than to expand too quickly. Maybe at the least, you know what you have is worth something if you decide to go in a different direction?

EDIT: To the question, has anyone consolidated their setup for a smaller, higher quality chain? Lessons learned?

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#111

I’d say yes.
That’s how i went with field recording gear, dividing the chain in parts and progressively buying for each part the “best” available stuff that fits my use case; trying to get first the parts that impact the signal the most significantly.
In my case, first microphones (and the mandatory wind protection accessories), then preamps, then recorder. I used some cheap-but-not-awful “placeholder” gear for months/years before upgrading them.
For studio gear, it might be a little more difficult to make firm choices on gear as there are way more options. But it might also be easier to turn to high quality DIY builds and the market is slightly larger (for resale as well as for buying used).

I guess it has been said before in this thread, improving the signal chain begins with great interpretation in a nice space. (this plus a properly placed pair of microphones and a top-end recorder is all that is needed (and used) for many baroque/classical recordings.)

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#112

Yes, also, the first component is typically a microphone and quality comes at many price points (ie, an SM57). Maybe take a look at the specific chain, I guess.

For instance, my current typical setup:

  • SM7B
  • Chroma Preamp
  • UAD Apollo Twin converter
    –
  • DAW (Ableton or Reaper)
  • UAD plug-ins

I could probably do well with a nice mic addition as I don’t own a nice condenser or ribbon (the SM7 will definitely stay in the collection). Then maybe look at a better preamp? The UAD converters should be fine for a while, I would think (maybe move to dedicated converters like a Lynx once I’ve got $3-5k wrapped up in a signal chain, if I ever get to that point). But even before changing converters, it seems like adding outboard processing in the form of analog compression would be the next step - at least for bus processing. The list goes on…

This is the hardest part. In some regards, the SM7B may be the right choice for someone with a limited or less-than-ideal room.

#113

That’s cool!

I have listened to that stuff and it does sound great. But yeah, I think she could sing into a 57 and still sound amazing.

I read the same thing about Neil Young’s “Harvest” album (at least the songs done in Nashville). No compressors. I still don’t know if I believe that, as it just sounds like there is. But the engineer swears there wasn’t. Regardless, it’s def my top 5 sounding recordings of all time.

But I have found that the best/easiest way to get a good recording: nice space, quality instrument into a good mic, into a good preamp. If that’s going into an old Studer 2” tape machine…AND you are Neil Young and crew…yeah. It’s going to sound great.

Tape compression goes a long way. Sadly I’m too far gone with my DAW for that.

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#114

Agreed on the tape. I think I also read that Neil took a lot of care in finding the perfect spot in the living room to record the acoustic guitar. Like, maybe in the middle of a doorway or something?

Either way, I think I’m more likely to hit the record button if I know it’s only going to cost me temporary space on a hard drive rather than $$$ worth of tape. But if I won the lottery…

#115

hi! need some advice as want to buy a passive di box mainly for use it with bass-gtr-synths (mono-passive).
right now my budget is around 200-250€. i´m considering the radial(s), like the jdi, but there are some interesting 2nd hand options out there, like the neve rndi, the fortchcoming warm audio di´s (w/cinemag transformers)…or diy options like the ferrite fe2.

thanks in advance!

#116

I use the FE2 with the Cinemag for bass guitar all the time. It’s clean and works well. Easy build. Your budget allows for more options although for a passive DI, not sure what more you want/need. No experience with the others you mentioned although I expect they work just fine.

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#117

they really do sound that great!
even into the house mics :slight_smile:


yes, his guitar
and also check out how their vocals blend!
(also, what they’re saying)

check the one mic style

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN14W-P8Zdc

5 Likes
#118

Definitely worth getting a good stereo chain, as it does then allow you to forget about it and get on with the business of writing, practising, and recording music.

I’ve had the mastering chain in its current state for about 9 years now (no new gear added), but as I’ve been recording live things a lot more the last few years, I was doing what I’ll refer to as “the cheap mic dance”. I was always ultimately unsatisfied so a while back I bought a matched pair of KM84s and haven’t looked back. They are fairly forgiving, coloured, but not too coloured, but the main thing is that whatever you put in front of them, they just sound right. They hit the Chandler TG2 dual pre and the Dangerous Bax EQ into Crookwood converters at 24/96, and I have to do far less in the mix than I used to, to get a great sound. Talking mainly about acoustic guitar and vocals. I’ll probably add a pair of the KK83 omni capsules in future too (still available new from Neumann, despite the mics not being in production since the early 90s).

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#119

In the spirit of the minimally viable thread I’m curious about any simple ideas to improve signal chain for live performance. Either to add some subtle saturation or compression to line out from modular. Oto Machines Boum seems like a nice choice? Does the FMR RNC compare? Favourite preamp pedals? DI boxes?

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#120

If you were going for a module RIP seems like it might fit the bill, with the possibility of saturating and bringing it to line level. Also if you are looking for an External DI Box, the Radial ProD2 is pretty highly praised and doesn’t really color the sound.

#121

I can’t make a direct comparison to the Boum but I use the RNC for mild program compression on the Mains Inserts of my A&H mixer for live use all the time.

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#122

Yes Boum is super handy…im preparing for a modular performance in the next few days and everything is mixed into a sherman restyler which I use to add some subtle frequency movement and weight and that into boum…using the low cut, a little boost and nice amount of compression which all in all makes it really playfully reactive to mix into with the modular. It for sure is bringing alot to the final sound and it all goes quite flabby and lifeless when I take them out

4 Likes
#123

I’ll second @mystasea here. I run my final mix through a Boum and I find the character it adds to be essential. I’m sure it pales in comparison to a full 500 series signal chain, but for live play, or simply as a solution that adds a lot without building out a full home studio, I think it’s great.

I’ll also add that it’s very playable. I love to be able to manipulate the Drive & High Pass filter as a song progresses.

2 Likes
#124

Have either of you used Analog Heat as a point of comparison? Since AH can also be a DI, I’ve been tempted.

1 Like