Thank you for this incredibly useful page. I noticed that the Compass script is missing. Is there any specific reason?
No. It’s just that the list is not yet complete
I add missing apps from time to time and people also propose additions. I’d say we’re 80% there.
It takes time to search each app features, make a non-poetic description and find appropriate demos and documentation if any.
Also, please note that I make mistakes from time to time (e.g. concerning the features, I don’t necessarily download each app to test them).
As stated at the end of the page contributions are welcome to speed things up and validate apps already registered.
I perfectly understand. So please take it as a contribution to improve the page
FWIW - the hardware section for Fates case options should maybe be
acrylic/DIY instead of
@Cloud, Compas added, among others.
Fixed. Also would appreciate a review concerning the
audio path field. Does the fate have an isolated audio power section like the original norns?
I’m not sure I understand the intent of the
audio path field.
The DAC chip on Fates is powered by a separate precision voltage regulator (does this mean it’s isolated?), whereas I believe the shield DAC is powered directly from the RasPi 3.3v pin.
(However… In practice, “noise” in the design isn’t so much about where the power is coming from, but how analog/digital grounds are placed in relation to the audio and other signals.)
The compatibility field is also a question for me. Fates is fully compatible with all norns scripts. The underlying norns software stack does have minor tweaks and I maintain a fork for those - as you note this is in part due to using a different kernel - but I’m not sure that’s an important distinction for that comparison chart. (updates to the fork are usually made within a day or two of monome releasing an norns update).
Last suggestion/tweak - Fates has not been open sourced.
Thanks for your time.
Oh yeah, this edit comes from @tehn. No voluntary finger pointing / name dropping, I guess he chose his words (“isolated” / “noise”) in a context of popularization, not scientific accuracy.
In practice that still makes an additional filtering stage for the powering of the audio section, right?
Does it really make a difference? I don’t know, depends on how well filtered the power coming from the RasPi GPIO pins is. Would need the user experience of somebody plugin in a crappy power outlet at a gig to really tell.
I guess it just means that it’s a more “following the textbooks” design. *
* I only have limited experience in analogue circuit design, not digital, and only as a hobby. So don’t hesitate to tell me if I say something utterly stupid or have any suggestion for a clarification that wouldn’t sound too nerdy for the average reader.
I agree this is misleading. Maybe should we rename this field to something else?
And still keep a sentence bellow that states that all 3 versions are fully compatible with any app.
Oh I thought it was after stumbling upon https://github.com/okyeron/fates. I see the that the gerber are not on the repo. I’ll fix this sentence then.
I’ve been silently keeping this page up to date
- added a lingo section
- used the scripts word instead of apps, as it seems to be more accepted by the community
- almost 100% coverage of usable musical scripts
- updated links to newer documentation
- updated links/pricing according to newer norns shield offering (sturdier case)
I’m still very open to moving some parts of this page to the main doc (see my original comment).
thank you for keeping this resource up to date
it’d be great to add some of the depth and specificity of the repo to this section of the docs: https://monome.org/docs/norns/app/.
these are the scripts that come preloaded on norns / are in the fresh image
- arcologies (@tyleretters) - ash (collected) - awake (@tehn) - barcode (@infinitedigits) - benjolis (@scazan) - boingg (@Justmat) - cheat_codes (@dan_derks) - compass (@Olivier) - cranes (@dan_derks - cyrene (@21echoes) - dronecaster (so many folks! initiated by @tyleretters) - dunes (@Olivier) - euclidigons (@synthetivv + @setfield ) - foulplay (@Justmat) - glut (@artfwo) - greyhole (@Justmat) - less_concepts (@dan_derks) - lissadron (@LFSaw) - loom (@markeats + @instantjuggler) - mangl (@Justmat) - mlr (@tehn) - molly_the_polly (@markeats) - moln (@jah) - oooooo (@infinitedigits) - otis (@Justmat) - passersby (@markeats) - patchwork (@Olivier) - phyllis (@Justmat) - pools (@Justmat) - showers (@Justmat) - step (@jah) - timber (@markeats) - timeparty (@crim) - tuner (@markeats) - we (collected) - wrms (@andrew) - why
- i like that the repo has granularity around script categories – that’s really helpful for orientation. on the docs page, it’d be great to find a balance so that no category has less than 4 scripts in it.
- each of the stock scripts should be present on the docs page with a short description
- i/o is a really crucial component, but i get absolutely lost remembering what each of the table columns indicate – maybe a legend can be established to indicate whether, for example, a script has baked-in crow functionality (eg.
- it’d also be awesome to find a way to address questions about a script’s grid size (64 vs 128 vs 256) and brightness (varibright vs 4-step vs mono) compatibility
lmk your thoughts + if you have any q’s – thank you for offering your help!
i might suggest the tag
grid-legacy or similar to indicate specific support
I like the idea of tags very much.
We could even think of some basic filtering by tag with some minimal embedded JS.
Regarding the document format, I relied on tables while the official doc uses lists.
I guess, that we could keep using lists as they would offer to cram more content using multiple lines. E.g.:
two looped sequences
My classification is solely based on the nature of the scripts while the current official doc one is mostly about their implementation (“softcut-based”, “synths and audio processing” for SuperCollider-based scripts).
I find my classification more user-friendly but the implementation detail (softcut and/or sc) could be nice to be kept as tags.
On the other hand, the official doc has a more fine-grained classification of sequencers that could be nice to keep.
Ideally, all mature scripts should be listed and described I guess.
Default could be marked as such with a tag.
Different icons / tags could be used to mark support for various grid sizes / brightness capabilities.
Just found your page today and clicked on the link back here. I’m a new Norns Shield user and your page has some great info on it.
My one question about Norns Shield is this tho… Apart from the (now seemingly dead) Fates version, is there a way to upgrade the Shield to something more ‘high fidelity’ in terms of audio output. I’m def getting a lot of that typical USB interference noise, even if it is a very low level of it, it would be nice to upgrade to a more pure audio path without just having to buy a whole new full Norns?
I’ve tried every lead I can, I’m using the recommended power supply. And I’m going to buy some shielded cables and USB interference removers to see if they work.
Is there an upgrade path that anyone knows about that could be added to your FAQ page?
Shielded cables won’t do much unless you run very long cables or live under a radio tower.
Jokes aside, be conscious about gain staging and use a gate for quiet passages in your music.
See answers in this thread.
This could indeed be a good candidate for a FAQ entry.
Thanks, thats great! I’ve read that thread and then forgot it existed Doh! Turning the internal engine volume up, but keeping the actual output low yielded some quality results, as does approaching shield as a noisy device in first place, which makes it fit in perfectly with my Koma Field Kit set up.
My plan for this evening is seeing if my Zoom pedal has a gate on it, as its stereo in (my actual gate pedal is mono).
If this isnt a problem in any way on the Shields bigger relative, I’ll add the Norns proper to my shopping list
Some sort of intermediate upgrade path for the Shield would be great tho.
Standard norns’ noise floor is said to be at -120 dbFS, so roughly 20-40dB bellow norns shield (that is said to peak at -80 dbFS):
It’s the noise floor level of good quality audio interface.
That gives you more headroom to work with but you could still hear noise w/ improper gain staging (typically amplifying norns’ output).
Also, I’m not 100% sure about this -80 dbFS noise floor measurement. I’m under the impression that mine is higher, noise coming directly onto the
IN channels. I should do some measurements w/ REW to get a better idea.
Also, if you only use scripts that don’t use the audio input, turn the
MON channles level all the way down in the mixer. All you noise will be gone.
Using USB audio out, via the Connect-OPZ script, and connecting my Zoom H5, all interference noise has gone. There is still a little bit of noise coming from the audio input on the Shield, but mute that/turn the volume down, and it disappears.
For me, reducing the monitor in Shield didnt help remove any noise, nor did it add any if I turned it up.
The USB audio is so much cleaner, free of all hiss
This pleases me
EDIT: Got some adapters delivered today, for trying the spare RPi 4 USB-C charger I have with Norns Shield, as its 18 AWG and an official charger. Lo and behold its completely cleaned up the Norns Shield audio output. The input is still noisy, but now I have a clean output that isnt USB audio interface dependant!
ooo this is nice and beefy. do you have a link handy?
This is the charger I ended up using - Official UK Raspberry Pi 4 Power Supply (5.1V 3A) – The Pi Hut
And then just some standard cheap adapters from amazon.
I still have to have the input muted on the mixer page of Norns Shield, but the analogue audio output is now completely clean. The distortion this thing can kick out is fantastic! The interplay between the delay, reverb, and compression is delightful (using Awake - Passersby)
EDIT: Bought some of those ferrite cable clamp EMI suppressor things (and a USB power cleanser device thing listed in another thread, but that seems to not let enough power thru for Norns Shield), and I think unless I turn the compressor up to ridiculous levels on the input, I’ve greatly reduced the level of noise, along with the new PSU. The noise is still there but its much more ‘playable’ (low level and workable) than before. I think the PSU has done most of the work but I’ve put the ferrite clamps everywhere, just in case, like a new age zealot ‘cleansing’ the room by burning sage every where