#63

I like the formulation “things that have happened to cellos.” I would like Yo-Yo Ma to happen to a Cocoquantus.

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#64

Really? OK. We all have different perspectives. I think, having never played a cello, that I could pick up a cello and bow and make some sound, relate my actions to the sounds, and perhaps even get some idea of why my scrapings sound bad compared with to experienced cellist. With the Ciat Lonbard instruments, I’m not sure I’d even know where to start. Sure I could patch away, and likely produce sound, but suspect I’d struggle to relate the position of cables to out output.

I have skimmed the docs on occasion, but I’m not sure that left me much the wiser. Perhaps focussed practice with docs and instrument in front of me would yield results? Perhaps not.

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#65

Have you tried?

I have owned most of Peter’s instruments over the last number of years, and found with all of them that careful experimentation and listening/watching to what other people do with them led me to a very reasonable understanding of how to play them, what to expect, and how to use them in my style. With practice, they have a very clear relationship between action (patching, knobs, gestures) and output/outcome, even when it’s slightly unpredictable or indeterminate.

This is why I argue against the idea of inscrutability in general. I have yet to encounter a music making machine where it was truly unlearnable, opaque, and didn’t respond to my input in some related way.

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#66

you should try it! i think to get to that last part would take a fairly extreme amount of practice and study, as well as coming to grips with some things that basically cannot be explained in words (mostly related to the bow hand.)

the resonant wooden body with wound metal strings under high tension, stimulated with “oscillating static friction” surface, is a fiendishly complex mechanical system. it does it a disservice to think of it as a box where you put staff notation in front of it and get notes out.

whereas it takes (almost) zero muscle training to patch a CQ.

i’m of course taking a polemical position here. there are other aspects. e.g. you have seen a string player before. even if it is just Data on Star Trek.

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#67

I enjoy exploring someone else’s imagination. It may take a while to get there, but that’s a journey I’m willing to take.

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#68

Is this even possible? We’d need a robust definition of “badness” here which I doubt very much is forthcoming.

Anyway,

I’d argue that “bad scrapings” constitute a particularly interesting facet of a cello’s possibilities. No one wants to hear Pablo Casals play cello through a Cocoquantus. I would very much like to hear a cellist’s “bad scrapings” through one, though. The Cocoquantus welcomes child-like scrawls and rejects virtuosity.

This is undoubtedly deliberate on Blasser’s part. As an aside, you can still purchase a Din Datin Dudero:

" The Din Datin Dudero brand is the original, esoteric analog synth for babies. "

1 Like
#69

thinking more succinctly

i’ve now spent 3.5 decades playing violin/viola in various traditions. the best thing that can happen to me while playing, is to perform a highly-musical gesture with absolutely no idea how i did it.

the frequency of such acheivements is probably the main factor in whether i think my performance was “good” or “bad.”

(maybe that means i’m an overall fan of what i’ll henceforth call scrutability, which is like inscrutability, but more positive - it means “inviting search”)

this also extends to electronic instruments; here it is certainly true that instrument design bends the likelihood of “failure mode” towards “insufficienty musical” or “excessively predictable.”

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#70

Scrutable Instruments? :wink:

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#71

I have held and tried to play a cello, but sadly not yet had the chance to explore Peter’s instruments.

Yes, I agree. Naive optimism on my part.

I can only imagine the joy that this must bring.

Hmm, again, I’m not sure. Do we not inherently have a different reaction to a child’s early sounds from a violin to that when we hear an accomplished player? Or are you separating unstable dissonance (a child’s first sounds when learning violin for example) from badness (what else that might mean?).

1 Like
#72

This is beautiful. Yes, me too. Lots.

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#73

Bad Scrapings deserves to be in the band names thread.

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#74

this bit here should be bold/huge/rainbow/blinking

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#75

I had a feeling this conversation might get here…

I think… One of the few things I feel pretty confident about… is that we call artists artists, because artists have unique voices, which stand out from the noise which is everything else.

We value that.

How do these voices come to be? To differentiate themselves from the noise?

I think the artist needs to be a critic. We need to be able to say - this is beautiful, this I have no time for. Over time this establishes an aesthetic.

That’s your voice and trusting it is essential.

Picasso has too many cool quotes, and I can’t remember his exact words, but they were along the lines of - Use Your Favourite Colours.

Why on earth would you want to use colours you didn’t like, unless you were more concerned with pleasing someone else?

So when we hear sound, when we see light, shade, figure… we have to be able to ask - do we like this?

One guy is going to say this sound is bad.

Another will ask if that’s even possible.

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#76

quoth Ira Glass:

Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.

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#77

‘To be awesome’.
Why be anything else?

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#78

IMHO a common misconception with music theory is concerning “all the rules”. They are actually there to encapsulate a certain style of music, and are not really means as universal rules that would somehow distinguish good music from bad music.

Say you want to write a chorale in Bach style. If you grew up on this music, you could just use your ear, but chances are you did not. Then the rules can guide you so that the music you write will end up being a chorale and not impressionistic piano music, 2-step garage or free jazz.

Actually I personally don’t think music theory is very good for composing music, although it can help me reflect in a more structured way about what I’ve just written or is just writing.

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#79

Probably an Offtopic here, but I am having some kind of crisis around this thinking right now. Like for a long time I was thinking when creating that I don’t have to please anyone with my music etc but I started to wonder if this is not a purely egoistical thing. If my music serves only me and is only expression of my ego what worth does it have? In todays society where there is already a lot of pressure being put on being distinct/visible/special wouldn’t it be better if I go plant a tree instead of letting my ego roam? So I started to think how I can make people feel a little better while making/performing my music while still following my own creative instincts and I will see where it would take me. So I don’t think that sometimes trying things that you don’t like is bad because it can let you learn why other people like it and maybe use this knowledge. Ofcourse everbody has different approach and I don’t want to invalidate anyone opinion.

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#80

I’m surprised Ciat Lonbarde comes up so much in this thread. I have the feeling its a lot of “judging the book by its cover” and just responses to the mysterious aestetics. For example, out of all the synths at my home the Tocantes are the ones which saw most hands of (non-musician) strangers. People immediately start playing and bending the instrument to their idea of music. They don’t know whats inside but they can touch the circuit and quickly learn that way. Oh, the scale is not 12TET? Great, forced skip of music theory, start listening/feeling, add gestures to your vocabulary and use them to express emotions/tell a story.

Inscrutability for me comes from modes and lack of idempotence, not from alternative interfaces or lack of theoretical knowledge.

:raised_hand: Sure thing, I think I did! I’ve done live shows with the Plumbutter, I really feel it and I can use it as my voice. Its a very expressive instruments and would not dare to call it inscrutable. It’s not harder to master than any other synth out there if you’re able to let go of your east/west coast synth knowledge for a bit and be open for new interfaces. Key for me is to work on a patch for a longer period of time and explore the gestures within. Know how to reproduce sounds quickly and transit from one to another in useful gestures. This same applies to every other (semi) modular, I don’t think the PB is an exception.

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#81

I know I’m days late but “mastery is an academic concept” just struck me as so sad?

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#82

Could it be more a way of thinking about the relationship between an author and their performance/production/process as something un-masterable (though of course great artists come somewhere close) in comparison to the way an academic context tends to canonize certain works as examples of a historical context or moment? If mastery is indeed an academic concept, then, as a non academic, I don’t personally see this as sad, but as some type of opportunity for an endless (hopefully productive) striving toward mastery. Like the reward for good work is more work kind of thing.