#42

Hey, I love old photos where I have a bad haircut or I’m looking a little chubby!

(I’m bald, and more than a little chubby now.)

So… give it time. You’ll grow into those.

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#43

I don’t really agree with this. I don’t think it has anything to do with the tracks themselves but rather your inner workings.

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#44

Music I made in the past is fine with me.

Back then, I wanted it to sound like it did back then and enjoyed creating it.

My taste and skills have changed, so I like some pieces more than others. Whether I like them or not, I try to not let my current position towards the pieces taint my memories of creating them. But I try to recognize & learn from things that I could have done better.

It’s the same with old photos: They show the way I looked, and whether I like them today or not, the best photos were always the ones in which I did not reflect in any way how I may be perceived by others – or judged by myself.

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#45

An update: I’ve been experimenting with SubmitHub.com. It seems like a good idea; a place where you can submit tracks to blogs and labels to get feedback, possible reviews, and perhaps added to playlists. I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to get my upcoming release accepted for review and/or inclusion with SubmitHub but the feedback has been at least entertaining. For example, I’ve had the same track judged as both “too abstract to be ambient” and “too ambient and unstructured.” The take aways for me are that I should have been more diligent in vetting the outlets I was submitting to and that electronic/ambient/drone/experimental is under-represented in that forum. Also that I might not know what “real” ambient music is. :wink:

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#46
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#47

Thank you! I learned about a new artist(for me) today

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#48

Arthur Russell and Julius Eastman are both incredibly important to me. I’d say with Ornette Coleman they are the key American figures after 1945 (notice I’m leaving out Cage and so on.) Obviously, Russell and Eastman both failed miserably in the promotional game and in both cases to extremely tragic circumstance. [In Russell’s case it was also that there was so much unreleased music in these hybrid forms, he had no idea where it fit.]

On the other hand, they were well recognized, even in their own time among the people who truly counted, artists able to absorb their influence and writers/historians who were able to safeguard the material and finally get it the audience it deserved when the world was ready to hear it. To me that kind of community is all that counts. Honestly, I would be very scared if something like SubmitHub actually did understand what I was doing. Because of course that will have zero value or influence in any lasting way.

I’ve also been thinking a lot again about community and see my own role, infinitesimal and minor as it may be, as more of a propagandist for a certain way of being. If there is a need to do music as part of that (I still think there is), it will occur in that context. If there’s a need to write, or share others’ music, or collaborate, or work in some other medium then that will occur, as needed. That’s what I consider. And so it’s great for me that you are discovering Arthur Russell and Julius Eastman and then maybe taking a look at the films of Harry Smith and then Angus MacLise not with his music primarily but with his poem “Year” – a fundamental transformation of thinking that is somehow needed very much these days. Somehow there’s a thread behind all of this I’m just trying to discover it myself… and of course propagandize on behalf of it. And not put out or share my own work unless it fills a need.To me this is the essence of promotion.

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#49

I know I’m late, but this is something that I’ve thought about a lot and I still have not quite found my personal way of dealiing with it.
I was (and still am) very obsessed with shielding all voices from the outside from influencing my music. I realized however, that isolation in it’s purest form can merely be an ideal, as music is never created from a vacuum, but is always product of socialization. That being said, I still see music as necessity in order for me to communicate struggles/feelings to myself. Sort of like a (quite abstract) diary. The listener therefore has no place in the creative process.

Last year released my first album on vinyl. This had been a dream come true for me and was primarily a way for me to process certain struggles and phases in my life and by having it pressed on vinyl I felt relieved and had the feeling of being able to move on from an old self. What I did not think of was, that now I had 100 copies on vinyl of an album that nobody knew about, and I didn’t really want to talk about. In order to get rid of them, I did some interviews, shows and had some reviews, which I felt a bit uncomfortable with, as I’m rather introverted, especially when it comes to something as personal my music. As intersting as this experience was, I was also happy, when it was over.
The radicality with which I defended my view, that music fulfills it’s purpose exclusively in the authentic reflection of a musician was however shaken, when somebody told me, that my music helped them through a rough period. This changed a lot for me, as I realized that music could help me to express certain feelings for myself and help somebody else at the same time. I guess what I’m getting at is that creating a musical space of expression for yourself and giving other people (beyond your circle of friends) the ability to access your music are not necessarily seperate concepts. What I am however still struggling with is finding ways to reach people who might be interested in music, without betraying my values. It seems hard to reach somebody without payed facebook posts or buying yourself into spotify playlists. The people I discuss this with, tend to tell me that this is the way the world is now. The problem is that the line between information about a release that you have worked on and dull marketing strategies to get people to consume products they neither really like nor need seems blurrier then ever before. Also, as more and more (cultural) products are created and attention spans get shorter it seems impossible to reach anybody anymore.
“15 minutes with your face up on the television - you can shout as loud as you like, but they don’t ever listen” Jehst - Wolf at the Door

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#50

It’s interesting to read the range of opinions and experiences here. For whatever it’s worth, I personally hate promoting my music & I’m sure I absolutely suck at it. I’ve got my artist copies of the last release of mine sat in a shoebox because I feel intensely uncomfortable trying to hawk my wares - whether on the internet or in person.

This is the part of music making that I have the most issue with and I know it has hampered my “career” for years to varying extents.

When I started putting out records digital distribution was putting a CD in the mail. All the music I put out came via labels approaching me to send them stuff and them pressing up records which their marketing department promotes. It was amazing but I never considered that a) I was incredibly fortunate; or, b) that this would ever cease to be the way things were.

When the labels I knew and worked with stopped putting out records (and people slowed down with buying vinyl) I took it pretty hard and didn’t know what to do with myself. I even stopped, not just making music, but listening to music for a while! After a few years I was in a bit better place but it felt wrong to continue with the name I’d used before so I ditched it and started afresh. The whole landscape had changed, though. I didn’t know anyone who ran a label any more and putting things on the internet felt like shouting at the wind (and still does, to a degree).

Perhaps 2019 will be the year I get my head around digital promotion and distribution, though. I hear good things about Distrokid and would welcome any feedback on that side of things if anyone has any experience to share.

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#52

I am the poster child of “DistroKid is no substitute for promotion.” :laughing:

My own promotion efforts consist entirely of having a website, posting on a few message boards, tagging/categorizing my uploads to DistroKid and Bandcamp as well as I’m allowed, and recently getting into compilations a little bit. I make dark, unsettling ambient-ish music, don’t have much of a following except from a few synth geeks and old friends, don’t play live, don’t do videos, haven’t submitted anything to netlabels since about 2005, etc. Here’s what DistroKid has done for me so far this year:

image

Spotify sends me a little info, so I can say that my three “fans” there earn me about 9 cents each. :partying_face:

The only reasons I’m not dropping DistroKid is A) it’s only costing me $18 a year, B) the lottery-ticket chance of “catching fire”, and C) the minor convenience of being able to stream my own music in the car (which probably accounts for 1/3 to 1/2 that “income”)

Bandcamp is much better for my revenue. Not amazing, but not this pathetic either.

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#53

Hehe - I hadn’t even thought of rigging my way to £1 by streaming my own stuff! Maybe if I did that enough I could generate enough income to pay the Distrokid fees!

A friend of mine makes a living from streaming services and Bandcamp. He tours constantly - worldwide - and makes enough to book his own tours and see the world… but he’s half my age and I know him because I play Mah Jong with his dad and have done for about 15 years :joy: I have 5 kids, 2 of which have left home - I don’t want to leave the house more than I need to most of the time. I made my choices and I’m happy with them :wink:

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#54

Yeah, I could see how if you put in the effort to do this full time (a lot of which is promotion!) then it could work. Since I make a good income from my day job I’m not really motivated to spend much of my other time doing promotion, when I’d rather make music or play video games or read. :wink:

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#55

…or do anything besides sit on the internet trying to get people to buy things from me!

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#56

Hello everyone.

Hope you are safe and well out there. This is my first post on ////////. I wondered if I might ask, where to begin. I have made music, relatively conventional music for a long time. I got to a point where it felt to me that the value of music had become more about being a personality, with a certain lifestyle, aspiring to personal adulation, praise and fam, than ever. I wasn’t comfortable with that.

To me, music is Shostakovich, Laurie Spiegel, Jan Garbarek, Mairi Smith, Daniel Lanois, Alice Coltrane. A motion, a moment, a cultivation of some kind of insight, introspection. So I am here to aspire to something of the same, as best I can, in any small way I can muster. But where to begin.

I wondered if any of you out there would have any advice on sharing music, creating profiles on different platforms, visual presentation. I have no social media accounts, YouTube channels etc What are the best means through which one could have a positive experience of sharing music online? Please find below something I made this morning in the mean time.

Thank you. :mountain:

https://soundcloud.com/user-500570371/loop-one

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#57

on one hand, it’s very easy with streaming sites, bandcamp etc. you can throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks. everybodys experience is different, goals are different. it’s very wide re how you want to present yourself, totally abstract anonymous all the way to over the top showoff fool, anywhere in between and beyond. the questions i’d prompt are how do YOU want it to go, what are your goals, what are you frustrated with that needs growth and attention? all rhetorical. i think people have each their own journey coupled with life chaos driving much of the bus trip. definitely research. find artists a. that you love (that exist now and you can see them existing) and b. find artists to connect with, network, share, help them, try to plug into existing communities, maybe consider making your own down the line.

there’s just no one place to begin. you could make a bandcamp, you could make an album you could make a social media profile dedicated to your artist vision. or you could just make music and enjoy the process. there’s nothing wrong or right without figuring what first you hope to move towards. :hedgehog:

you really can’t do wrong and that can feel overwhelming but also be a gift.

feel free to dm if you would like more specific perspectives but i will spare my personal things from up here.

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#58

What is a positive experience to you? None of the artists you mention above had internet presence to consider during their careers (Lanois?)

If you can decide what you think success looks like then we’ll be better positioned to help. At that point, though, you may have answered your own question

Where to begin?

Well the beginning is making the music…not any online profile

Still, you seem to be off to a decent start with an account on SC + lines forum

Welcome!

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#59

Echoing @dude.

From your list of loved artists, I believe that you will find much to connect with here, both in terms of aesthetic compatibility and smart and generous new friends.

Welcome!

Edit: I would love to hear about your process for creating this lovely track that you shared.

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#60

Hey there @dude, thanks so much for your thoughts on this. I think the ability to create albums and music that connect with people is certainly a great goal to have, as is the ability to make something on the spur of the moment and send it out into the world as is afforded to us in this day and age.

I often wonder about those who take a Youtube based approach to music. I would suggest that music has become completely at ease as a visual entity as well as a musical entity how ever it doesn’t not feel to me quite as easy to find a footing on that front as it does when it comes to sound and music creation, maybe this is down to experience? :mountain:

#61

Hi @glia, hope you’re well, goodness me that is so true, total lack of internet, digital world, hard to fathom. To me success is really about finding that group of like minded people who appreciate similar things and have an enquiring, thoughtful relationship with music.

There is also the question of validity, to some music I guess can be just a release, an output, for me I wish for my work to be in conversation with others. You see that sometimes in labels, cities, through similar kinds of equipment and I think that encouragement is wonderful. :mountain:

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#62

Hi there @eblomquist, hope your well, thanks for getting in touch. Thanks to all for the welcome :slight_smile: Yeah there is such brilliant music in the world, I love to listen, just turn everything and listen into music, not much of a big thinker about it, but I do love to listen for hours when I get the chance.

That little loop I made by multi tracking my violin/viola in different tunings, blended with Chromaphone 3 and a WMD Synchrodyne. The other loop on the other side (the two loops are panned with some mid/side stuff to get a strongish centre) was made with Kontakt Instruments, a Kaval sample and a resonating Filter 8 under modulation. Both tracked onto a UHER 4200 which I cleaned up a bit with RX8, hope that helps.

Thanks again…:mountain:

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