Of course :smiley: What I was trying to say is that there are other ways of filling space than piling on sounds…

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i know quite a few electronic musicians who often approach this dilemma by likening their works to a three-piece or four-piece band, such that only one distinct voice-sound-instrument-track-etc can be ‘played’ by each musician at a time.

for example, if working on a piece with drums, piano, a couple synth pads, a sampled bell, and vocals, they’d split it up into sections and figure out who’d be playing what and when in a theoretical live performance scenario—player one might do drums in the a section, switch to sampled bell in the b section, and go back to drums in the c section, while player two might be piano in a, the first synth in b, and both the second synth and backing vocals in c, and so on. when the hypothetical hands and mouths run out, that’s it—nothing else should be added into those spaces.

the idea is that by building your arrangements around the physical limitation of having enough people to perform a given passage, you’ll end up with something that sounds more fluid, varied, and natural than you might’ve if afforded an infinite capacity for noise.

my personal method is fairly similar, but with a key difference—i think not in terms of people, but rather, mlr mute groups :upside_down_face:

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some great advice here - things I’ve come to in my own working practices.

I wanted to add one I’ve not seen mentioned already:

be ruthless about throwing stuff away!

as you are working on a piece - mute tracks - are they adding anything? if not DELETE THEM - don’t save them just in case, don’t copy them elsewhere - throw them away! (this might even be the first part you made - the idea behind the piece - I’ve made tracks where the original parts are just ghosts that somehow inform the piece but have long since gone)

It’s too easy to become precious about things - “I’ve spent 30 minutes on this part I’ve got to use it somewhere”. learn to let them go! (I’ve gotten like this about all of my working practice - I make no attempt to save patches I’ve made, I just delete parts that aren’t adding anything - I can always make more music/sounds)

One of my favourite anecdotes around this idea is that Bill Bruford gets a writing credit on a King Crimson piece called ‘Trio’ - he didn’t play a note, just stood in front of his drums with his arms crossed. But the credit was for NOT playing the drums because the piece didn’t need them!

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We’re putting together (thanks @jasonw22) a compilation of tracks made by forum members using a single piece of gear. It will be out in a matter of days and I’m sure it will be immensely inspirational to all of us that are struggling with too many options, or try to fill tracks with every thing they have.

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Keep It stupid Simple
pd+rpi
https://soundcloud.com/youaresound/2018-2-20-11-22-22a

https://soundcloud.com/youaresound/2018-3-29-12-17-42a

or

https://soundcloud.com/youaresound/180310-014604-noise-pop

https://soundcloud.com/youaresound/180310-014604a

be careful these tracks are loud.

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Those waveforms are a clue :wink:

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When I get stuck, I take things away. It almost always works.

And/or take out my favourite part of the track, because that’s usually causing the problem.

As for keeping things minimal, I just have a particular interest in making work from as few components (instruments/timbres/whatever) as I can. It works for the music I make, and I find it rewarding when I get things ‘right’.

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I don’t really use them, but I remember many of the oblique strategies being along these lines…

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That’s an interesting perspective. Thank you for that.

this is a great story. thanks.

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if a well-placed upside-down smiley-face is the best quotation i ever produce, i’ll arguably have spoken just right!

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Personally, I find nothing wrong with large and/or complex systems. They simply reveal possibilities that are different than those arising from the small systems. Conversely, small systems uncover new possibilities while concealing others. The only real mistake is considering systems as the mathematical sum of their parts – a mistake encountered when one is looking “at” a system rather than actually using it. Often, systems are actually much less than the sum of their parts – which has to be OK!

In other words, if one has a system with five oscillators, it’s perfectly natural to always gravitate towards patches that use all five, or at least three or four. Theoretically, it’s possible to patch something up with just one or two oscillators, but practically this option is for the most part covered up – it lies at the edge of or just beyond the frame.

If one gets frustrated, or angry with oneself for not “disciplining oneself” to use only two oscillators, the only fault lies in the fact of this anger and this frustration. There has indeed been a lack of discipline, but precisely in the opposite sense – the lack of the discipline to simply let things be. Instead of the system withdrawing unnoticed into its function and thereby disclosing itself as what in really is it thereby becomes something one is looking “at” - and only here does the dangerous notion that a system is “the sum of its parts” emerge. One has let the circumstance of a large system delude oneself into forgetting one’s own finitude, and forgetting that the frame still exists.

If one must have “the best of both worlds” – start with an even larger system (seven oscillators), split it into two self-contained units, one big (five oscillators), one small (two oscillators) place them physically far enough apart in the studio that they cannot be cross patched. Not only does this work, one then finds oneself making simpler patches on the larger system because they parallel those made on the small system. The smaller system not only functions in itself as a frame, it modifies the frame of the larger system in curiously liberating ways.

The point is in any case not to force things and understand that there always is a frame, that one is never simply observing things from a detached position, that one is always in the world, placed in its depths, moving about, and that means that when something is revealed it necessarily means that something else is concealed. All beings are finite, which means that you cannot have one movement without the other, in spite of what is possible “in theory”.

Yet, there is nothing negative in this finitude, nor in its interplay of concealment and unconcealment. One speaks of the “joy of discovery” – discovery being just another word for un-covering, unconcealment. Rather than restricting freedom, finitude is actually that which frees. The frame frees entities to be what they are; it frees the artist to cultivate them, to care for them, to let them come into their own, to resonate in their being.

The frame, its freedoms, and the discipline of letting be hold no matter how small or large one’s studio, and there are no easy paths other than constantly trying things according to inspiration, learning what resonates most strongly, cherishing the rare moments when things really come together, understanding that these moments are fleeting more often than not, and being always open to change.

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All the intuitive counter-intuition in this post gave me grad school flashbacks

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I played around with them a bit when I was a student, I think there are a few like that from what I remember.

Related, perhaps: when I first started programming drums (TR-606 and Boss DR-220E, so… a while ago) I would go crazy stacking sounds then wonder why my drums didn’t sound great. Then, I started programming things that a human drummer could play - i.e. not having a closed hat, snare and cymbal all on the same beat - and was astounded at how much better the drums sounded in a mix.

I guess this is just another “less is more” anecdote…

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Somewhat relevant:

Not strictly about simplicity or minimalism, but does have some examples of the underlying complexity of supposedly simple melodies. Also the need to have some space, and using space to play with expectations.

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Mine are split up so there’s 2 mantises and a mn skiff. Each can function as an instrument to itself, or play nicely together in any combination. Was getting self-conscious about using “too many” modules and being super sloppy with them…and then getting annoyed with myself for feeling self-conscious. The multiple case solution, if available, has def been working out for me at least.

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Listen to loads of minimalistic music.
From the 20th-century avant-garde classics
to current soundscapes and field recordings.
Either acoustic timbres or electric beats.
Acknowledge the spaces in between notes.
Seek for the tao within you.
Breath.
Enjoy the Silence.
Meditate.


:person_in_lotus_position:

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Off the top of my head and I guess I will be repeating some of the already mentioned tips, but the things that work for me are:

  • Limiting myself to one instrument (be it a hardware synth or a plugin). I made an entire EP using only the 0-Coast for example, and while challenging it really helped my learn the instrument inside out. Recently I have expanded this setup to include the Lyra 8 and I hope to make an EP using those two instruments (I posted some examples of the tracks I have made so far in the Lyra 8 thread). When it comes to plugins, I choose and Ableton native synth, set myself a maximum number of instances I can use them in (8 tracks for example) and see where that takes me.
  • Limit further. Instead of 8 tracks try 4. One sound playing at a time (hocketing is a cool way of overcoming this particular restriction). Don’t use reverb (or any other effect that you find yourself using often).
  • Writing down a list of attributes. This is something I learnt at college, where we had to make songs with a very strict list of requirements. Had to have 4 recorded sounds (field recordings help), 4 MIDI tracks, 8 percussion tracks, a change every 4 bars or so, a tempo change, a meter change…etc.
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