Korg Wavestate

[Mattb]

Of course to each its own, it was just a thought. I am glad it works for you, did not mean to attack you.

[Smapti]

I propose that the sample/waveform distinction is not binary but rather a continuum. I think a good example is granular synthesis: if you have 1 single grain equal to the entire sample then nobody would argue that you are indeed playing a sample. But if you have a cloud of repitched microsecond grains run through an envelope and a filter, I’d say you have something much more on the synthesis end of the spectrum. And, of course, you have many styles of granular synthesis in between those two poles, where it’s not exactly classical synthesis but also not exactly sampling.

So, when it comes to the Wavestate (or Iris 2, which sounds great to me but also brutalizes my poor CPU), it seems to be somewhere in the middle of this continuum.

[equipoise]

Of course I know they aren’t samples. My point is that in the context of user-uploadable or user-sampled waveforms, there’s no difference between a fixed waveform from a synth (in the sense that it’s not user uploadable) and a sample that’s fixed. I’m talking about in practice, not in implementation.

You don’t upload new waveforms to a Moog, and the minute differences between one sawtooth cycle to the next are, if anything, more analogous to the sweep of subtle wavetables than anything else, yet some people complain that they can’t change the waves in a wavetable synth yet never think twice about complaining that a Moog has a fixed set of waveshapes.

[equipoise]

I propose that the sample/waveform distinction is not binary but rather a continuum

In fact, not only is it a continuum, it’s effectively identical. It’s all in how you use the result.

[kirklandish]

It seems like this same interminable debate happens every time a new synth that has fixed sample playback or wavetables comes out. People inevitably want to load samples/waves, which is understandable, but not every synth can be everything to everyone. Maybe it will be updated in the future.

Also… I don’t know if this debate about what an oscillator is is useful at this point.

[tenembre]

some people complain that they can’t change the waves in a wavetable synth yet never think twice about complaining that a Moog has a fixed set of waveshapes.

That’s probably because an actual analog waveform tends to be more satisfying than a sample of one. Sample based instruments need the variety. But this is getting way off topic.

[equipoise]

I really thought lines, of all places, would be where people finally dropped the whole “analogue is better” argument, but apparently not. Anyways, I agree most of this discussion about synthesis is off topic except my point which was that none of this is a meaningful criticism of the Wavestate. So far, what I’ve seen suggests its a brilliant re-take on wavetable synthesis, with a massive step forward in user programming and performance controls, a vastly improved UI and modulation set, and a pretty neat set of extras. Will I be buying one? Probably not as I’m a huge Nord fan and a virtual analogue lover and already have plenty of interesting and beautiful digital oscillators at hand (as well as an enjoyable stack of analogue), but If I were in the market for an affordable, deep, and quite fascinating synth that has some serious promise for being truly interesting in a field of mostly same-old contenders, this is the one to watch, IMO. Good on Korg for making a reissue something far more usable than the original, and for pricing it very reasonably to boot.

[LLK]

So far, what I’ve seen suggests its a brilliant re-take on wavetable synthesis

Just to be precise, there’s no wavetables in the wavestate / wavestations. Just single cycle waveforms, wave sequences and vector synthesis. But it’s not wavetable synthesis at all.

For the sake of ending this argument with clear facts for those who would be interested in this as a hardware wavetable synth.

[equipoise]

Sorry, I see no difference in evolving and mixable sequences of related single cycle waveshapes and wavtetable synthesis, but you’re right - it’s not exactly the same thing. What I mean is it’s a brilliant re-take on the original Korg Wavestation idea. Fair enough?

[tenembre]

really thought lines, of all places, would be where people finally dropped the whole “analogue is better” argument, but apparently not.

I assume that’s in reference to my comment? I didn’t say “better”, I said “tends to be more pleasing”. As in, it’s personal taste. The robust sales of “moogs” suggests that that taste is shared by many.

And, if you’re going to now argue that there is no difference between analog and digital waveforms…please don’t. Let’s drop this subject.

[AlessandroBonino]

Does anyone of you know if presets are completely erasable from the machine or there are fixed banks? I like the wavestate, but most of the presets I hear on YouTube are utter Scheiße to my ears.

[papernoise]

@equipoise, @xidnpnlss , @tenembre, @Smapti, @jasonw22 and everybody else who has been involved in the “preset samples and romplers” discussion here.

I don’t want to split this discussion, because it would likely result in context-less comments.
For this reason I’ve made a new thread for you, please discuss that matter over there and not here.
Here’s the new topic: Preset samples in synths, romplers

Please note that we’ll move any further topics that are not specifically about the Korg Wavestation to the new topic linked above.
If there are any of your comments here that you think should be moved over there let me know.

[Happyanimal1]

This things looks dreamy to me. Only thing better would be if Dave Smith reissued the Prophet VS,

[ludvista29]

Got a hands on look at one today

[12eightyseven]

One showed up at my local music shop today, got to spend about 30 mins with it. I was pretty intrigued by the videos but put off by my first experiences. Build quality was cheaper than I expected, just like a minilogue. Screen was smaller than it seemed from videos (and pretty necessary for use). The samples were OK, it’s neat that there are so many and the filter emulations were ok, wouldn’t trick you into thinking it was a real MS-20, but nice to have any sound shaping option.

It seemed like a neat execution of a workstation in a smaller format, but was not the weird wonder box I’d hoped I’d encounter. Seemed a great synth for someone that has an image in mind of what they want and wants to spend the time piecing it together and less for the happy accident seekers like myself. Will continue watching any demo video I find but my wallet is $800 safer for now.

[varispeeder]

Watching videos for the Wavestate, I was intrigued, because it could be super useful for some of the soundtrack/scoring stuff I do. But I’m aiming for a purchase-free 2020, so it made me dig into other options for this type of synthesis, and I realized I already had access to it in Arturia Prophet V!

Obviously there are lots of differences, but it’s still a really interesting source of colors. I’m glad the Wavestate came along to make me explore some new kinds of sounds without triggering my GAS!

[Orbofthemoons]

Just picked up one of these for 549$. A nutso price in the current climate.

I am curious what the current thoughts are after some months of use?

[encephalitislethargi]

Is there any sort of consensus on those Korgs? The opsix & wavestate? Are they cheap? Do they hold up to the level of sound design ability and sound quality of something like the asm hydrasynth or the digitone? Is it possible that the modwave would be worth the asking price or is it more of a plugin in a box? Does the new drum machine look more intersting than the model:cycles? Might be too early to tell I guess. I’m just on the fence about those because I have no context for the quality of korg instruments post-electribe es1. So the year 2001 I think. But I hear the minilogue is very good. And I was a fan of the volca fm

These all seem like very exciting instruments to me.

I wanted the opsix but can’t really justify it since I have the digitone and don’t think I could sell it. The modwave might be irresistible unless I’m missing something. The drumlogue sounds very interesting to me

*Realizing now that this may need to be moved to the newer romper thread. Sorry, didn’t know exactly where to put it

[Net]

I bought a returned Wavestate at an irresistible discount a few months ago. The build quality is plasticky and feels cheap. The keyboard is limited and I’d perhaps have preferred the combination of a desktop version and a large controller keyboard. The sound is like a great VST (I had the wavestation VST before this). The panel interface is mostly very well laid out; I found it easy to figure out basic functions without using the manual. It has a wonderful modulation system with all sorts of fluid movements. The joystick (on mine at least) has the minimum friction needed to stay where you put it; you could move it by blowing it. I don’t like this because I’m clumsy and my hands flail all over the place, like an escaped hose.

I don’t like scrolling through the little menu and this has been the main cause of my procrastination in getting to know the synth. I ended up putting it away in a cupboard (in my defence, I have extremely limited space). I desired this synth because of the 80s and 90s bells and crystal sounds, but I haven’t found much of a musical use for them yet. I’m too involved in manipulating samples. Nowhere on my eurorack do I have a screen or any menu to navigate (unless you count the sample banks of Radio Music, or the Gotharman LD3, which I tend always to route to and from eurorack). This is to get things going as quickly and simply as possible. It’s made me very lazy about getting to know any other desktop stuff.

All in all, I’ve not really answered your questions and instead digressed about personal shortcomings. I can at least say that wavestate is quite deep and quick to patch and good fun.

[encephalitislethargi]

i think you did. i mainly needed a good reason not to feel like i needed to buy these newer korgs and i respect your opinion on these things, so it is actually helpful. thank you