#8

This in a nutshell.

No amount of practising at home is really going to prepare you for playing out publicly. If i were you I’d try to get a series of bar gigs with CDJs as this is a great way to learn while learning how to read a crowd in a much less stressful environment.

I have no experience with controllers but have played fairly regularly for a while mostly with vinyl but in the last few years I started to use CDJs a lot more. Vinyl is very fun but it can be hard to find good conditions for it - you can definitely expect bad turntables and needles, bass feedback, people bumping into/dancing against the desk. CDJs are really easy to learn and very fun. Beatmatching is way easier and cueing very intuitive.

Beatmatching is really fun. Don’t be afraid of trainwrecks or galloping horses - learning how to correct mistakes is crucial.

Most important tip is know your music - listen and listen and listen and…

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#9

Yes, would love to pick up CDJs but wondering what is ideal to start with when you can’t afford CDJs. Also, regarding music tips and reading crowds, I know that I’ll have to just practice & gig. Also I’m trying to learn as much as I can from sets that I enjoy, BRs and mixmag sets.

#10

There are lots of angles on this and diffferent approaches. From my perspective, dj-ing is taking two vinyl two records and beat-matching on direct drive turntables.

If you want to learn to do this, buy turntables, start off with two copies of the same record, match those up, move outwards.

I failed to do this, I regret not doing so…

So, there are now other ways to do this, easier, Traktor, etc. But that feels like a bit of a commoditised game to me, personally.

#11

Personally, I think the best starting point is Traktor with an S2: you can play with sync when you want to focus on creating a flow and reading a crowd, and you’ll have the jog wheels to learn beatmatching with. Don’t worry about turntables and vinyl unless they really appeal to you: most working DJs play on pioneer decks with USB keys these days.

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#12

All this is most likely true. But working with the tactile
nature of vinyl vs other methods? It’s like playing guitar vs playing Guitar Hero, for me.

Note that I can do neither. My friends that do/have done this professionally for 20 years moved to CDRs etc because the transportation for vinyl was a nightmare, bad backs etc.

#13

I never made this particular transition, so can’t really comment.

However, I enjoy making music with whatever tools are at hand, so I’m sure CDJs can be cool.

I was starting to get into Traktor quite a bit, but after buying an NI Mixer (Z2) and a couple of controllers, it all felt a bit a) computer-y, and b) complex.

I also much prefer DJ-ing my own tracks (with a few others mixed in for fun), which led me down an as-yet-incomplete rabbit hole : a totally bonkers bespoke Eurorack + monome + guitar live performance / DJ / do everything setup. ER-301 and norns as centerpieces, with the arc and grid as nice minimal controllers to make everything less complex to deal with when rocking out.

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#14

But working with the tactile nature of vinyl vs other methods? It’s like playing guitar vs playing Guitar Hero, for me.

This is what I was talking about stigma wise. After all, I think we all agree its about the music choice first and foremost and then all the technicalities next. @mateo Thanks for the suggestion, that’s where I was first headed, I need more wax to take the vinyl route, and I don’t think a controller would rule out the possibility of learning to beat match.

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#15

I dj’d with vinyl for many years before switching to traktor, and I don’t miss the tactile nature of vinyl at all. There was definitely a time early on where I enjoyed the challenge of beat matching, but that eventually became a means to an end, and computers are a better means to the end for me.

There really isn’t as much stigma as there was in the past: there are still traditionalists for sure, but CDJs are ubiquitous, and some of the top names in the business use computers.

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#16

How does Traktor compare to the CDJ onboard software?

#17

They’re all pretty much the same. If you haven’t, you should check out rekordbox which is both an app to manage the music on CDJs and a DJ program in it’s own right. The basic version is free.

#18

No stigma here. That’s why I was careful to phrase as personal preference. Like I said, the guys I know who do this for a living moved from vinyl many years ago.

Personally, I tried both, was a crap beat marcher, but still preferred using records.

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#19

for me a dj should have (with this order)

  1. a large repertoire and knowledge of the musical genre(s) (s)he is playing.
  2. a sense of the situation/mood of the people listening/dancing and where they want to go.
  3. a sense of how to drive smoothly along the various aspects of the music (tempo, groove, mood etc - long list here), possibly by planning many tracks (not only the next one).
  4. a knowledge of how to manipulate the musical flow along the tracks (beat tracking etc).
  5. a technical knowledge of the equipment and their operation.
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#20

Do you know if I got the Kontrol s2 if I could try using it as a controller for rekordbox? I’d like to use traktor but i’m assuming not every opportunity will have me using traktor for djing.

#21

Can’t say… I imagine it’s possible to integrate them via simple MIDI control, but not sure how well it works.

#22

Tagging @izzy for some relevant advice.

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#23

Thanks for the tag @caelmore

@dsiah – if you intend to DJ in clubs without wanting to bring your own equipment, I’d highly recommend sticking with rekordbox and Pioneer’s line of DDJ controllers and CDJs simply because of ubiquity. Traktor and Serato are great tools but usually for DJs who prefer timecode vinyl. Getting used to the physicality of using the equipment is pretty important which is why I wouldn’t recommend getting a tiny controller that feels nothing like what you’d encounter in a club. Once you’ve internalized (I mean, really internalize) your tunes and got beat-matching on lock, having fun and being creative on the fly depends on knowing the equipment inside and out: not having to fiddle around to locate a knob, quickly identifying if the settings are adjusted to your liking as you take over from another DJ, etc.

Avalon Emerson (she’s also a programer, if you didn’t already know, and it shows in her organization skillz) recently did a great interview with Resident Advisor on the art of DJing. Highly recommended read.

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#24

Yeah this is a good point: although nobody I know really likes the pioneer software, it’s the best way to prepare material for CDJs and will be the easiest way to transition to playing on them.

In my experience, the only people who are still using timecode are turntablists, who are pretty much all on Serato. Traktor appeals mostly to DJs who are into the expanded functionality computers provide (i.e. effects, samples, stems and 4 deck mixing)

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#25

I disagree strongly with this.

This mindset is exactly the aim that Pioneer marketing has been trying to achieve.

It’s why so many new djs are just Pioneer product specialists , that actually have very poor basic djing skills.

If you concentrate and master the four classic fundamentals of selection, beatmatching, gain staging and phrasing then you can walk up to any dj gear in the world and do your thing.

Cdjs are very simple machines that take a couple of hours to master if you have the fundamental skills down.

Having a Pioneer club setup at home because they are “industry standard” and “necessary to be club ready” are just the effect of aspirational Pioneer marketing.

Of course Pioneer wants people to think they have to buy $4000 of club gear for use at home.

It’s not true or necessary though.

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#26

Pretty sure I prefaced my opinion with “if you intend to DJ in clubs without having to bring your equipment”. I also don’t find it useful to restate advice that’s already been shared in the thread re: fundamental techniques and concepts.

Just for the record, I started DJing on a Numark Mixtrack Pro, approximately $50 used five years ago, because that’s what I could afford at the time. I learned the basic concepts of DJing but the actual dimensions of the controller, weight of the jog wheels, and functionality presented were irrelevant, if not confusing, when it came to being in a club with CDJ-2000s. I’d never recommend buying CDJ-2000s outright because that’s ridiculous and inaccessible for most people, even getting access to practice on CDJs is challenging. So, I suggest getting a used Pioneer controller or pair of old CDJs so that what you’re practicing on is applicable to performance.

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#27

That is a great series of articles, and I didn’t actually know that she was a programmer for her day job, neat. As far as size, and throw length what would you suggest buyers beware of? I’ve read some folks who say that short throw for pitch faders and other dimensional features may be important to focus on when finding the right controller.

Right now you’ve got me considering:
Pioneer DJ DDJ-SB3 4-deck Serato DJ Controller