Learning to make pcbs

DMR · 2018-03-20T13:32:32.638Z

You can have 1-off (or more) aluminum panels made at Front Panel Express (https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/), including black anodized. This won’t exactly match the matte pcb panels used by Make Noise for their black modules, but should probably look closer than a powder coated panel. For reference I believe the black Expert Sleepers panels are anodized aluminum.

Cutlasses · 2018-03-20T16:22:45.389Z

Have you had panels made from Front Panel Express? I wondered how expensive they were? As I remember you had to submit a design to get a quote…

DMR · 2018-03-20T17:45:26.666Z

You don’t need to submit the design, their design software, Front Panel Designer, will show you the quote. The cost depends on the size of the panel, how many holes it has, the amount of graphics, etc. I had ordered a 4HP panel before and I think it was $30-35 or so.

Cutlasses · 2018-03-20T20:25:10.404Z

I see, thanks. I’m guessing the price goes down the more you order at a time?

DMR · 2018-03-21T02:01:48.110Z

Yea, there are price breaks if you order more of the same panel. I believe it is a 10% discount when you order 5, 20% when you order 10, 30% when you order 20.

caelmore · 2018-03-25T17:01:12.847Z

Loaded question, I know, but the more time I spend with my modular setup or posting on this forum, the more I find myself wanting to be both a user and maker beyond simply generating recordings or playing gigs. I’ve been chatting with people about some ideas I’ve had for a hypothetical “new” Walk and/or expander modules for it (based on this post from @tehn in another thread), but since I’m neither a programmer nor an electronics engineer by trade, I’m wondering where you’d recommend I start with learning to program and design modules so that I might make this hypothetical thing for myself at some point.

steveoath · 2018-03-25T17:45:11.523Z

Simple kits perhaps. Or if you would rather look into the programming side something like the Rebel Technology owl or Snazzy Ardcore or the patchblock module.

I think the programming side is trickiest on an original module, so looking at open source modules can give lots of info.

Thus far I’ve only investigated kits and passive utilities. (Radio music, Uraltone mixer were my kits and I’m building passive mults and an expanded for batumi - both based on schematics I found online).

I’d like to build a euro version of Look Mum No Computer’s Big Button Box but look to converting his design to a euro PCB. However the code is already written and available online to flash an Arduino nano.

infovore · 2018-03-25T18:24:34.984Z

So the tricky thing in your question is that there’s loads of different components. There’s the circuit-design part; the manufacturing-boards part; and then if you want to make something digital, there’s writing code, writing code that works on MCU of choice, getting MCU into the world.

But: these are all components with small starting points. A breadboard and a bag of parts is not a bad way to begin; any Arduino starter kit will get you off the grounds in terms of thinking with voltages, and passive components, and beginning to write simple logic. The difference between ‘working on a breadboard’ and ‘now how do I make this work in Euro’ is not particularly high, the hard bit is getting the circuit right to begin with (and not screwing up the 'adding modular belt/braces).

I’ve prototyped stuff in software like Processing before turning it into firmware - ironing out the kinks in my logic. So you don’t necessarily need to dive into the whole dependency chain to start sketching the problem. Finding something you can think in is important.

The thing I definitely know, though, is having a goal makes this easier. Much easier to learn something if you know what you want to achieve. And foot-pedal interaction modules are actually pretty straightforward (I know, because I’m working on one). It’s basically just a button, and making a button do things is one of the first things you can learn. Massimo Banzi’s Getting Started with Arduino is really good on starting to think with microcontrollers and simple passive components like this.

infovore · 2018-03-25T18:29:06.096Z

steveoath:

I’d like to build a euro version of Look Mum No Computer’s Big Button Box but look to converting his design to a euro PCB. However the code is already written and available online to flash an Arduino nano.

Well, it’d be quite straightforward to basically make a Euro-sized ‘shield’ that still connects to the same Nano outputs - then you could use the same firmware but with a differently sized piece of hardware. Although, it would also make a good candidate for putting a bare Atmel 32u4 on the PCB and basically flashing it with the Arduino firmware directly…

It’s definitely a good learning project, though, taking that circuit drawing and making a Euro-sized version. More than happy to offer input.

Rodrigo · 2019-09-14T13:10:13.022Z

(Kind of a bump here as this seems like the most relevant thread to what I’m asking.)

Seeing that the Bela Trill will be coming out at some point, I was thinking that this may be a good time to learn how to make some PCBs, but what I’m specifically thinking is making PCBs as an “interface” surface, not really as a functional/circuit thing. I’m thinking of something along the lines of the Stereo Field or Manta where the PCB itself will just be large copper traces with a small via (?) to the other side, where the electronics will actually be wired.

I imagine it would involve making some vector art in some other app then importing it into a PCB app(?), so with that in mind, what would be a good app(s) to look into for something “simple” like this. I had a quick look at KiCad and it looks understandably intimidating and super overkill for what I have in mind. I’m on a Mac (10.14) if that matters.

Also, a big part of this would be to have potentially non rectangular PCBs as well, as I’d probably have the PCB make up the shape of the controller I’m after, so that probably further complicates things.

infovore · 2019-09-14T13:34:43.302Z

You don’t necessarily need to make the art in another package - you can draw vectors straight onto boards. Though the tools in EAGLE/Kicad are nowhere near as nice as Illustrator.

Non rectangular is not an issue, you can make the layout any shape you want relatively easily, and the fab house will just cut it.

(brief because at airport)

okyeron · 2019-09-14T16:09:19.031Z

I think Eagle is still free for hobby use up to 80x80mm boards?

There’s Fritzing which is very simplified, but kinda janky in its own way

(Just googled this) Here’s a list of software to check out
https://www.electroschematics.com/2249/pcb-design-software/

Rodrigo:

Also, a big part of this would be to have potentially non rectangular PCBs as well,

I figured this out in Eagle - and maybe have since forgotten the exact steps - but you can import a shape from illustrator into the “dimension” layer in Eagle.

Maybe this is one of those skill share things and we should do a google hangout or something.

soggybag · 2019-09-14T16:21:26.155Z

I might try making a guitar pedal first. It would be a good way to introduce yourself to Eagle and work out the process.

andrew · 2019-09-14T16:30:45.965Z

okyeron:

Maybe this is one of those skill share things and we should do a google hangout or something.

count me innnnnnnnnn

Rodrigo · 2019-09-14T16:32:57.339Z

okyeron:

I think Eagle is still free for hobby use up to 80x80mm boards?

Hmm, that might be a problem for controller-sized PCBs.

(had a quick google, and look’s like you’re right, 80x80mm is the limit for free accounts)

https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/AUT-MFG1044_Eagle_TableV3-1.jpg

okyeron:

There’s Fritzing which is very simplified, but kinda janky in its own way

Oh yeah, I forgot about Fritzing. I used it years ago to make a simple Teensy diagram thing for a glob post.

okyeron:

Maybe this is one of those skill share things and we should do a google hangout or something.

I would love that…

Rodrigo · 2019-09-14T16:35:38.673Z

Rodrigo:

(had a quick google, and look’s like you’re right, 80x80mm is the limit for free accounts)

Wait a second, the chart says 80cm2, so does that mean 80cm by 80cm (almost a square meter?!). The translation says 12.4"2, which doesn’t seem to line up with 80cm (or 80mm for that matter).

anon45924993 · 2019-09-14T17:12:22.640Z

The square root of 80 is
8.94427191

Rodrigo · 2019-09-14T17:27:38.521Z

Duh, that makes sense.

So I could make a ~9x9cm board with the free version (if it was perfectly square).

zebra · 2019-09-14T20:55:45.937Z

i’m still baffled at the relative unpopularity of the gEDA tools for DIY electronics. the suite is mature, truly free/OSS, simple, wealth of I/O options, &c. link above is a tutorial for blinky-board from start to finish.

i’ve never gotten along with eagle. always PROCAD for commerical work and gEDA for little things.

kicad gets honorable mention just for having a nice XML file format that is relatively easy to work with programmatically for Weird Stuff.

slowsounds · 2019-10-31T17:13:03.476Z

I’ve been using DipTrace for the last couple of years and have been pretty pleased with it. While Eagle might be better documented or have more libraries (which you can still use anyway in DipTrace) I’ve yet to run into something I can’t find a solution for, and it is a significant upgrade from Fritzing. Only irritating thing I have found is running it on a mac with Wine it doesn’t like the right click function on the track pad, I have to use an external mouse (which is easier for doing this kind of thing anyway…). Fritzing is really easy, especially if you want to drag and drop sparkfun parts and things like that, but its also so simple I found getting things done with it incredibly frustrating. If you are doing basic layouts the non-commercial use free version of DipTrace doesn’t limit you by board size, just the number of pins (300) and to two signal layers, which should be plenty for doing basic stuff. Beyond that you can buy versions again based on number of pins/signal layers needed rather than having to go all or nothing.

I’m working on my first panelized board which I’ll probably send out soon. Trying to get the whole mouse bite/router thing sorted so my bites give a clean break without indentations on the finished board, but I anticipate the first time I’m bound to make some sort of mistake.