I’m kind of a polysynth and guitar guy. I’ve got a few chops in mids and high end. But my basslines aren’t grabbing me.
What do you think about when you think about the low end? How do you make it stand out, but also sit in a mix? How do you keep it interesting while still holding things down? How do you relate it to your drums? How do you relate it to your harmonies and melodies? What are your favorite sound sources and processing techniques?
Bass
I just work with the best bass player I could find
Tricky subject! I’m still trying to master this myself so I’m not exactly an expert (yet!) but I do have some (ok a lot of) ideas on this.
The first thing I do is throw on my mixing headphones. (Beyerdynamic 990 open backs paired with the Sonarworks Reference 4 plugin to flatten out the frequency response.) I primarily record in a small untreated room so I’m just not hearing a true representation of the low frequencies. Even if your room is treated you just won’t get an accurate sound in a home studio. Phase cancellation will almost always happen and it is your biggest enemy when dealing with bass. Play something with low frequencies in it and move around the room. Listen in front of your speakers, then in the middle of the room, and then in the corners. You’ll notice the volume fluctuate greatly and some frequencies might cancel out completely and disappear!
After that I’d say sculpting/picking the right sound is most important. There are some bass sounds that just wont work in the context of a mix. Don’t pick a sound because you like it on its own and if it doesn’t sit in the mix properly then don’t rely too much on fixing it in the mix later on. Getting a great bass recording at the beginning is key.
While mixing your friends will be side chain compression, EQ masking and dynamic EQ. The classic example of course is making the kick and the bass work together. Side chain the kick to the bass so that the bass drops in volume whenever the kick hits. EQ them so they sit in different frequency ranges. (Sound selection is key here too… if the kick just won’t work with the bass then replace the kick) A lot of the time you’ll find that certain notes jump way up in volume over others. Before you use compression use a dynamic EQ to lower just those frequencies when they hit, then add a compressor after that.
Saturation or light distortion can make a huge difference as well. It can help a bass stick out in the mix or sound less muddy.
Bass can have mid and high frequencies in there too. Sometimes I separate a bass into low, mid, and high frequencies and process them all differently then bounce them back down to one sound. Compress each one differently so they all achieve the same amount of gain reduction. You can also add more distortion on the mids and a stereo effect on the highs. The bass will pop more in the mix while also having a wider sound. This also help the bass to be heard on smaller speakers that can’t produce much low end.
Make sure you fold all frequencies under 250Hz to mono. The lower the frequency the less stereo spread it should have. This is not a solid rule but it’s helpful to follow at first. There are plugins that can do this automatically for you like the new Utility plugin in Ableton 10 or the Brainworx Control and BX Digital EQ. Using a mid side EQ on the master mix bus is helpful too. You can roll off some more of the low end from the sides and boost the low end on just the mids.
OK that’s enough out of me.
In the music I make, bass is often a drone.
Sometimes it’s the primary rhythmic element (and it’s unlikely to be fighting with a kick).
Sometimes the bass and melody line are the same thing and I’ve probably got octave leaps and legato and such
The main things I think about:
– Is it solid? If not, do I want it to be? Should I have another bass part, layer in a sine sub, or leave that range empty for effect?
– Is too much concentrated in a narrow frequency band? I write for headphones, which is more forgiving, but this still could be a concern.
– Is it fighting with something else? Sometimes I will rely on a master limiter to handle it and let things get a bit messy, sometimes I’ll think about sidechaining or EQ or something to separate them.
So the typical mixing/production concerns kind of apply, but not in the same ways.
Just want to interject, that I’m really interested in hearing creative ideas as well! (Though I do appreciate the production advice, and I’m downloading a trial of Sonarworks Reference right now).
Sound sources? Creative processing techniques? Composition ideas?
I like 3/4 time signature basslines shifting in a 4/4 track.
I don’t have much knowledge on the production/mixing front, but I have some thoughts on bass line creativity below.
Appoggiatura is a bass line’s best friend, and also syncopation.
A charting example of use of non-chord tones would be Post Malone’s Congratulations (not an endorsement of him or his music). That maj7 in the chorus always makes you think it’ll resolve upwards to the tonic, but it doesn’t, and the song stays relatively interesting despite only having two chords(!!!) in it! Similarly, the bass in Interpol’s Untitled keeps the song interesting, despite it repeating the same four bar guitar part over and over (I could only find an edit on youtube but I recommend going out and finding the album version). St Vincent’s earlier work, particularly all of the Voyager on Strange Mercy, is a masterclass in sustained bass. Frank Ocean’s stuff is also full of this, particularly here, in Nights. Definitely a good example of non-chord tones appearing on accented beats.
Going back to the tension and release thing, Darkside do it with time, not tonality, by literally make you wait over seven minutes for the proper bass line to come in on this track. I think it’s worth the wait. Mount Kimbie use it to give some of their tracks momentum.
Other good examples, or stuff that just has interesting bass for inspo:
serpentwithfeet – Blisters
Kneedelus – Drum Battle (actually this whole record is full of interesting bass)
These New Puritans – V (Island Song) (bass comes in around 1:30)
Jenny Hval – Heaven
Visible Cloaks – Terazzo
Nicolas Jaar – No
Son Lux – Lost It To Trying
Here We Go Magic – Over The Ocean
Julia Holter – In The Green Wild
It’s really easy to just let the bass be a pad and sometimes that works really well.
Bass notes locked in with kick drum hits is a common one.
Syncopation is awesome. Hit the down beat but then jump around to other places. In my mind I picture the bass briefly acting as another instrument would - as a guitar adding quick melodic stabs, as a drum bringing the energy up with a fill before the next bar…
Overlapping with the fill idea, I often do a bit of “walking” to anticipate the following chord change.
I think a lot about (but am not at all good at) Brain Wilson’s approach of using non-root tones to create interesting flavors and chords that feel like suspensions and bass lines that seem like melodies in and of themselves.
In terms of the actual sound, so much is dictated by the rest of the piece. Will it be a synth, or a bass guitar, or low piano notes, etc. On some tracks I’ll filter it down to leave only the warm low end and on others I’ll add some saturation to bring out the top and make it bite.
I will always love a good chugging 16th-notes synthwave bass.
I have a droning bass which is making my amps rumbling unpleasantly, so I tried to EQ out some of the low frequencies…but maybe it is still not enough. Shall I use a high pass filter and what would be the difference?
I’ve been playing bass for 22 years and I think that besides a good compressor, a HPF is just about the best investment I’ve made for my bass rig. It will remove frequencies that your cabinet cannot reproduce cleanly, allowing your amp to focus its full power on frequencies that it can. Since what we generally perceive as the lows of a bass is actually the second harmonic an octave up, you don’t really feel like anything is missing and everything just kinda cleans up as a result.
I’d sweep the HPF up until you start to notice it, then back it off to just before that - it could be a surprising amount of reduction.
Couple weeks before the outbreak I was eyeing one of these (or similar) in the local secondhand shop
It was ridiculously cheap but I guess I’m glad I passed in hindsight, don’t need more weird rack stuff
Had an Eden metro combo for a while and the eq +comp stage was invaluable for anything with low end (in my case, a lot of 8vb and 16vb strings)
as a bassist, the most powerful tool in your toolbelt is the root note on the one. your job is to use it as judiciously as possible
think like Reich or Glass – take this little idea and evolve it in tiny increments over the course of a whole section or song. little gestures towards where it might go, building and building, aliasing over measure boundaries and phrase boundaries.
and then, in that same meditative state, feel the groove deeper than anyone else on stage. forget all your left brain Reich and Glass and go full right brain. listen to more latin jazz than you can even stand. learn to dance.
sell all your pedals, turn up the volume, and barely touch the strings. play less notes. play with live drummers as much as possible.
…or just don’t buy any to begin with. I never got along with any effects on bass guitar- mostly just want(ed) to dial in something approaching the David Wm Sims tone.
I can definitely relate to the minimalist nature of playing/equipment/pedals when it comes to playing electric bass, but if you haven’t played with an octave fuzz stacked into a doomy fuzz then dare I say you are missing out.
Production-wise, I had been running into bass muddiness or weakness in my own tracks, so I decided to start doing research and ended up watching a ton of EDM production videos (even though my own music is far from EDM to say the least). This resulted in writing a plugin over the past few months, and I’m sending it to testers tomorrow.
In general, I had a bunch of workflow flaws that were sucking the bass out or making it compete with other frequencies. Some tips:
There is one pedal I always have between bass & amp, and thats the Moogerfooger MF101 LPF = thunderous dub basslines that make all the glasses in my kitchen rattle!
I’ve only had a chance to mess with that one time, would love to try it again now that you mention it (as I love thunderous dub!)
Ok, following Rabid and returning to the original questions.
What do you think about when you think about the low end?
First of all funkiness, I love basslines from soul/jazz, syncopation and groove. Low end can take on many roles. It can drive the groove and it can really add emotional weight to a melody or lyric. Especially when the bass has taken a break and comes back in with long powerful notes.
How do you make it stand out, but also sit in a mix?
I’m rubbish at mixing. I try to keep my track-count low. If needed I will sidechain a comp to the kick to make the kick heard.
How do you keep it interesting while still holding things down?
I try to alternate long and short notes, I try to play basslines that feel melodic. Absence and space makes it interesting too.
How do you relate it to your drums?
I don’t know. And I just play what feels good to me. Sometimes I follow the kick, sometimes I play in the space between kicks. Recording and seeing in Ableton where my bass notes land has made me more aware of “playing in the pocket”. After the beginning mistakes of putting my notes on the grid, I’m now more interesting in seeing “what it looks like” - when it feels good.
How do you relate it to your harmonies and melodies?
When coming up with basslines I’ll start with the root-notes and by exploring the chord-notes. When looping a section for a while I will usually come across passing notes, walks etc that feels good. Sometimes I get some call and response happening between different melodies/riffs (vocal, guitar etc).
In general I strive to find bass-lines to have some kind of “hook-quality”. Be it BoC “Roygibv”, Sly Stone, New Order or whatever. A song with bassline like this kills me every time:
What are your favorite sound sources and processing techniques?
A year ago I got an early Fender Squire P-bass (JV) that just made me realize “Oh, that’s how it’s supposed to sound”. I record it straight into a Neve-clone pre and a DBX 163x compressor. Sounds great to me for my music. Synth-wise I got the same “ah, that’s it”-feeling when I first used my Moog Minitaur. It just sounds so fat and sweet. For now I have no more low-end needs equipment wise.
I couldn’t help but chime in on this topic since the majority of work I do as a performer is bass. My background is classical double bass but I have played in loads of bands both upright and electric, mainly country, jazz, and blues are the sort of bands I’ve been in.
As a starting point the root/five approach is always a great place to start. I really had to get all of the young, go gettter out of my head before I accepted that might be all a tune needs. Sometimes all that’s needed is an “anchor” for everything else and that’s cool. I tend to think of lines as being either the anchor, a “bassline” (like a walking figure, but that can be a loaded one to dissect), melodic, or countermelody/counterpoint. Emphasizing the melody down way low can be super cool and reinforce what everyone else is doing but I do always enjoy the lines that act like a different Melody or counterpoint. But as to where to start with any of those? Well, if I could answer that with confidence then I’d probably be Nathan East.
In terms of bassline in the mix? Well the other part of my career/work life/hustle is managing a recording studio. A lot of my background prior was in hip hop styled beats where there’s a ton of sub. After working with a bunch of rock bands that’s most definitely what is not needed. So I’ve just adopted a mantra of kick below the bass ie the sub frequencies should be more present in the kick and a more low mid bass. That’s what I’ve noticed most rock bands want to hear even though I just keep wanting more sub bass - gotta feel that bass ya know? Talk about a moment where you’re your own enemy. I’ve also been applying that thought process to more of my electronic productions and everything just seems to translate better.
Well I feel like I’ve ranted more than enough now.
I play bass in a straight-forward-ish indie band, and 1.5 years ago I started incorporating my eurorack synth into the group to build some more interesting textures into the songs. I’m a huge fan of buchla/west coast/additive synth techniques/practices and so that’s where I was coming from.
I’ve repeatedly run into the problem of having to choose either a very moog-bass-sounding patch, which to me sounds pretty traditional at this point, or a patch that sounds interesting but really doesn’t mesh with the rest of the band. here’s the rack i use, its usually the daisy going into a wavefolder and through a filter. I’ve had a hard time trying to incorporate clouds into the patch because it introduces too much busyness to it and competes with the 2 other guitars in the band.
My general goal is to land on something that can be pretty tight (some stoccato stuff) if need be, but with plenty of textural complexity that takes advantage of the full range of eurorack.
Are there any examples of really interesting bass synths in the pop/rock n roll/punk/indie zone of music? honestly, any genre, im open to anything.
thanks everyone!