library + norns package manger + norns.community -- bot to help make sure it's in all the places?

Hey,
I really love trying out new scripts on norns and seeing what the community has created. There are so many inspiring tools, and I love being able to try them out.

We have 3 great ways to explore them. The norns tag in the Library category on lines, the package manager within maiden at norns.local, and the norns.community site. Last night, I wanted to download all the generative sound makers people had made to explore as I was getting ready for bed, and I realized that I had to cobble together from the three sources to get a more definitive list.

I was wondering what people thought about some sort of bot to help try to get closer parity in all the tools? Something which checks to see if the script is in norns-community/community.json at main · monome/norns-community · GitHub (and so shows up in the package manager) and has a page on https://norns.community/ and if the answer is no to either of those, it adds a comment to the library thread stating how to add it. The bot could also give a link to the norns.community page if one is found so it’s easy to get between them.

Maybe the bot could even auto add these things without much information (to norns.community without author link/to the package manager json blob but without much description) and then comment telling the lines thread author "these have been automatically created for you, you can edit them by going [here] and [here])

Just curious what people think? I’d be happy to invest some time helping with this, but I would like to get a bit more consensus of what might be wanted from the people that manage these things first.

so @tyleretters @eigen @tehn @ngwese (sorry if I’m messing someone else). What do y’all think?

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i agree more parity could be helpful. i’m not sure a bot is the correct solution, though i do like the idea of a bot automatically creating a stub on norns.community.

i think the idea is that we move away from lines being a reliable source of truth for available scripts. maiden is certainly the definitive single source of truth. i could see us implementing some type of policy around “we don’t accept new scripts to maiden unless there’s a page on norns.community” but that could be onerous.

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I think the main issue might be that not every single script author made norns.community pages for every one of their scripts at the time of launch, but we can hope new scripts are getting pages ?

so there could be a one-time script to create stubs for missing catalog entries in norns.community, then moving forward .community would be more of a source of truth (?)

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@tyleretters I think you’re on the right track. Perhaps there’s some automation/bot at the PR level that could nudge and/or “enforce” the creation of a community page.

So that at the very least anything within Maiden has a community page and visa versa.

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i think the idea of enforcing some kind of policy is the exact opposite of what should be done.

i look at it from the perspective of producers and consumers. the script authors are already doing additional work in order to share what they’ve created with others. putting additional constraints in place in order ease the burden on the consumer seems misguided.

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Great thoughts.

it seems like a cool first step could be a script which scrapes the norns tag in the library category, norns.community and that package manager json and returns a list which shows which ones aren’t in all 3 (and where they are missing)

The updating the script to open prs for norns.community and the norns-community json blob to add ones that aren’t there…or maybe just do that manually.

Manual running of the script, manual acceptance of the prs would be fine for a first pass I think. We could get into future script side later on but maybe it’s not even needed if we could just periodically run something which updates things in all the places?

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I’m not sure that taking everything from library and putting it into community and the maiden list is a great idea. Scripts in library could be early/work in progress, they could be abandoned and not working with recent changes to norns or the author could simply not want them listed. It brings up some interesting questions around ‘ownership’ of scripts and where they appear, but if there’s a script you want included why not just start a conversation with the author?

I do think there are some opportunites to simplify the process of publishing scripts. The library area of lines asks for bunch of information (which is understandable) and the community site wants most of it again. It would be great if there was a single method for publishing a script and having it appear on the community site, available in maiden and a library thread created.

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To me the key issue is discoverability. I would venture to guess the majority of norms users are not developers and are looking to for scripts to take full advantage of what the device has to offer.

By “encouraging” the documentation/cataloging of scripts created — work-in-progress, experiments, final, or otherwise — benefits the entire community and Norn’s ecosystem.

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Yeah totally even if it’s just a list of links somewhere “here are the scripts that aren’t on norns.community yet”. I think that will help make scripts that might be a little hidden more discoverable

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decided to try figuring this out, actually quite easy to scrape “all scripts” on both here and norns.community I’ll see if I can turn this rough string into the actual name with links tomorrow. Tonight’s very rough iteration of the script to find that out shows these are the lines library-only scripts (of course some are collections, which would explain why they might not pass the naive startsWith test):

EDIT: figured out how to add the links in! Updated script

Here are all the library threads which, at least by naive substring matching, don’t seem to have a page on norns.community:

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holy cow. thats exactly what i needed. thank you @jlmitch5

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sometimes
the unmapped
are the point

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I guess that even if it is better if it’s a script’s author that documents his/her/their own creation, users of a script could also take part in the documentation effort of their favorite script.

one idea I had was to contact every author w/ scripts that are absent from norns.community to ask them if they’re available for documenting them here.

if they are not, other lines users could help fill them in.

it should be pretty straightforward most of the time as the content of introductory posts for script threads are generally close to what is ends up in norns.community pages.

how does that sound?

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I totally agree.
i hope it doesn’t come across too confrontational, but i don’t like the idea of a centralized place. One aspect, which makes the Norns universe magical, is that not everything is served on a platter. I like the idea of stumbling upon patches that i somehow missed for ages. Has a similar feeling to it like the early 2000 years, when i’d hunt down pure data patches somewhere on the internet.

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Really appreciate the thoughts (both practical and philosophical) about this. It’s made me realize the core of what my ask is was about being able to find scripts/know where I might should look to see if I’m missing something off the beaten path. So i think that list of links above will suffice, and I’ll probably leave any further initiatives to others.

I’ll probably do the same thing for the package manager json soon and then call this good enough for me.

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i see one of mine on the list (strides). i’ll get it up on norns.community today. :smiley:

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I also see 20 characters of mine :sweat_smile:

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also huge shoutout to @jlmitch5 for scraping lines and making the list. that was freaking ingenious.

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As an aspiring norns user, the idea of some kind of relatively comprehensive directory is extremely appealing.

Also totally understand that some developers might prefer to be cloaked in some way, but at least creating a general suggestion of joining the directory might create some useful coalescence.

Inspiring thread!

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good insights, thank you all for posting! (and apologies for my lag)

anything in the maiden catalog should have a url, which to me is sufficient. the author can choose where they interact and share their work.

or if the author does not want to be in the catalog, that works too because we have ;install — ie, if an author simply wants to broadcast experiments from a disconnected blog.

if people want to start pages for unrepresented scripts i think that’s also fine if permission is requested and granted— particularly on norns.community, which we envisioned both as a catalog and documentation repository. it makes less sense to start Library threads, as most of the discussion tends to be questions and bug reports and feature requests: an author should start that if they want to engage at that level.

i don’t think there will be an authoritative always-up-to-date list: that’s just not how the internet works, and we have no intention of making norns also be some sort of gatekeeper. if someone wants to start a thread for “off-map discoveries” for linking scripts not located in the library/catalog/community that’d be one way of tracking/announcing “hidden” works.

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