Hi. Yes! A shotgun works really well if the room is a bit dead. I did some gigs with a full size brass ensemble. I used a Røde Ntg-1 at rehearsals and on the concerts I got group mixes from the FOH technician.

The reason was mostly that we wanted the mics as close to the performers as possible to not but even more of the room sound back into the pa.

I have also used contact mics on piano wich worked great.

Also when I am playing with my jazz quartet I usually put an sm58 in front of the sax and don’t worry about it.
I usually want to transform the sound anyways so I am more interested in getting the signal to noise/spill level best than the actual sound quality.

I do have two pairs of the Lom Usi pro microphones and even though they sound greeeaaat they pick up waaay to much spill for most settings.

Of course everything depends if you are doing lowercase flute solos or you are micking a metal guitarist.

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Nice of you to stop by.

Surprised to hear that you use omni’s! I haven’t had good luck with my bigger omni’s though I’m doing much more straightforward looping than you usually are I think. The k&k’s seem pretty good, and I like the price point. Do you think built in mixer pre-amps would do well enough in terms of pre-amplification for those?

I’ve also found that my DIY piezo’s have not done well for quality, though I was running using those into a handheld recorder with no pre-amp.

I’ve been doing a lot of live sampling with mic’s. It’s really tricky with feedback. Especially when layering multiple layers of the same mic.
I always use severe EQ settings on the input channel of the mic to filter out any resonant frequency’s in the room and the system.
I’ve used condensers and it can work but with something like a SM58 you are much safer. Especially if you are going to improvise this gives a lot of freedom.
But the feedback problem with instruments and mics with live looping on larger PA’s made me move mostly to instruments with pickups. Being it coils or piezo’s.

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The omni thing depends a ton on context obviously.

(There’s a lot of optimization you can do too, using something like @tremblap’s HISSTools. I know for a lot of his live sampling oriented pieces he will do some measurements at the venue and correct for the microphone and the speakers in the hall to do things like getting a “realistic” omni distance mic from a close direction mic etc… I do a much lower tech version of this where I sort of ‘bleed’ out the room and dial out problematic frequencies. (I’d like to eventually have an automated system that will sweep and tune a filter to minimize feedback spikes)))

For the value the k&ks are hard to beat. They also have lots of variations (hotspot, twin spot etc…). As far as preamps, contact mics have specific impedance requirements, and a regular mic/mixer preamp isn’t ideal. Cable length also matters a lot too. I would recommend making something like this, which does nothing but correct the impedance (a buffer). I have a couple of these sitting in a drawer somewhere.

What’s even better though is something like this:


(@mods, do let me know if it’s not cool having a schematic like this up here)

This one is a buffer and a preamp, and has a built in EQ to boot. I found the schematic online then had someone make a stripboard layout that fits inside an altoid tin. This sounds fantastic. Using this gives you a ton more bottom end without doing any boosting, just by buffering the signal. You’ll notice a big difference even with a shit contact mic.

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I guess this would be an appropriate time to plug my live sampling SuperCollider program called Animalation:

It’s for grid and arc, can be used grid alone and can be used with non-varibright grids. It offers live sampling with mlr-style slicing, pitch shifting in octaves and fifths, reverse, a lowpass filter, fm, and loop start and stop controls, as well as trigger recording. Nothing is quantized.

My favorite technique is resampling the sound coming out of the speakers.

Here’s a full performance video to get an idea:

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Oh yes, what with the electricity and all…

But ok that impedance buffer looks super doable. Seems like something my fiddly soldering skills could piece together.

I’m also very interested in HISSTools. I’ve tried the manual method of blocking out the bleed points with a graphic EQ but I always have ened up with a swiss-cheese comb filter sort of thing that weirds up the input signal too much. I suppose a proper mic’ing setup could make that easier.

It’s a different price range than the 58/beta 57 stuff for sure, but I’ve heard that the Sennheiser MD-441 is very good for these sorts of applications.

I am still hunting on the lifelong quest of finding my soulmate in a live sampling suite, but the journey is not over. Block Party is keeping me engaged in the meantime though

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Whoah @Rodrigo, thank you for turning me on to Bart Hopkin!

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Back in the 90s I walked into a Barnes and Nobles and came across the first edition of Gravikords, Whirlies & Pyrophones: Experimental Musical Instruments (which came with a big book and CD) and it changed my life! I don’t remember if that was where I first came across circuit bending, but it had a chapter on it which blew my mind.

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Thanks for this rod, I was thinking about that pre amp earlier today so good to not have to dig around for the board layout :slight_smile:

Oh that’s great! The problem with potentially life changing links on the internet is that they are so accessible and I come across them too frequently…I should buy this book though

If you can find the original one on ebay or wherever, it’s worth it (it’s rectangular and has longer and more chapters). The CD is the same in both I think, the original book just covers more ground. There’s a follow up book too, which is the size of the reissued first book, also good but less detailed.

I also have on my HD somewhere the complete Experimental Musical Instruments back catalog. Don’t know if they still sell it, but ages ago you were able to buy pdfs of the whole thing. So much great stuff in there.

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I have Bart Hopkin’s other book, Musical Instrument Design, and highly recommend it. I’m not familiar with the book you mentioned, but this one is very a much a deep dive into acoustics, tuning, and the fundamentals of acoustic instrument design and construction. It has less detailed guides on how to build specific instruments. This book really changed how I think about music!

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just wanted to say this is a very cool thread. im lurking hard.

i love live sampling. i have been using an octatrack with a zoom h4 field recorder as a mic. i just turn monitoring on and use the headphone out in to the octatrack. i also use samplr, an amazing ios app. i use the built in mic when i’m improvising or playing with others. i find that quick and dirty works for me in general.

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Damn, I wish I could find that complete collection. I’d like to buy all the little books for each type of instrument group, but they add up to a lot! I might start with Making Lamellaphones…

Best take away from reading Getting a Bigger Sound: I can use a piezo film mic to amplify and process my clarinet by dangling it in the air column. I just bought (online) the pieces to diy. Hopefully I’ll have an example vid soon to post. Currently hoping a 1M ohm guitar pedal is sufficient for getting a decent sound straight from the pickup…

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Yea please share the results, interested to see/hear how it works out

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A cool trick I saw Kjetil Møster do was out a contact mic on a stripe of gaffers tape in front of the hole on his sax. Worked great with distortion pedals and so on!

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I have that collection on PDF somewhere as well, as well as on a couple CD-Roms - will try to get uploaded somewhere soon, or when I figure out where I put that stuff

not what i promised, but i just put together this little project Bart recommends in Getting a Bigger Sound. Its cute and fun.

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Another way of thinking about miniature omnis like the DPA - is that you can get them so close to the source that you increase the signal dramatically, and that helps reduce potential feedback. They are also less susceptible to handing noise from being omni and miniature. That’s the reason they are used so much in live theatre eg:

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