Have you seen Nanook? The parody version on Documentary Now is priceless.

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I have - I had to study it as part of my degree - but it was over 2 decades ago. I’ve never seen the parody version though!

One trick I’ve been using a lot with my Marantz pmd 221 tape recorder is to play a section of audio through a running tape loop - record the result and pan hard left, then use a different tape loop, run the same section of audio through, record it and pan hard right :ok_hand:

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Someone upthread mentioned texture and for me that is a big part of what I like about lofi approaches. When I find music with texture that I like I can play it over and over again, concentrating on specific details or letting the feel wash over me. It becomes the most useful music for me as well as the kind of music I listen to the most.

But even more importantly for me at this point is that I like capturing some kind of performance or even just the sound of a place. Something that actually exists. Much computer music sounds to me like nothing more than the process of removing humanity and location from the equation. Like the difference between a band in one room with a mic vs everybody overdubbing each part in a more acoustically sealed room is big. But compare that to the way things are done now where many times (most times?) these overdubs are also chopped up into a pseudo performance, pitch and time corrected to remove errors, and then slathered in fx and processing. It doesn’t even really feel like someone playing music anymore. And that’s when you’re talking about recording instruments!

Being in the electronic field the pressure towards that kind of “perfectionism” is great. Everything is about adding more capabilities, more channels, more more more. I realized a while back that this is just not an interesting method of working for me. I like it stripped back. Right now I’m working with an old sampler with no filters and no envelopes. I turn off quantization. I’m trying to create some kind of performance where I am playing things in imperfectly, then I arrange them live in one take imperfectly, and then I mix the portastudio recording down as quickly as possible. It’s all in the direction of capturing some real energy that existed in the world in a way that emphasizes the texture of what was done.

This might not be for everybody but I enjoy this method of working far more than any other I have done.

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Perhaps this isn’t the right thread for this idea, but your post reminds me of something that I have been thinking about a lot for a long time but just recently had a crystallization of thought around.

It’s the contrast between history and eternity.

If I spend time writing and recording and mixing and mastering and releasing recordings, I am participating in the making of “history” or the accumulation of documented moments that can be revisited and ranked in significance and otherwise frozen and exploited in various ways…

On the other hand, if I freely improvise and don’t dilute my focus away from the moment by trying to capture it, I can remain in the eternity of the always now…

I love recording and recordings, but as I go further into my 60s, I find myself wondering if I have lost my way in the desire to document my music, to “leave something behind”… Why? For whom? To what end?

Isn’t it better to just “Relax, turn off your mind and float downstream”?

Can anyone relate to this?

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I use this term a lot, but have never quite got a handle on why I like it so much.

Is it also the difference between (as an analogy) looking at a hi-res photo of a real landscape compared to a rendering? Do we have a natural tendency to look into and understand the detail / process behind that and find more information there? How much of that is learnt - like a geologist studying a rockface and seeing the history of the process…

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Some of what I like about these kinds of data degradation methods or experiences is the dreamlike quality… I rarely remember all the details of dreams with precision, more often I awake with a partial image or plot line that leaves a lot to the imagination to flesh out…

It’s much like the difference between reading a book and seeing the film of the book… when you have to rely on your brain to provide details for some reason the experience feels richer, even though technically it’s actually data depleted…

But this kind of liminal state is powerful magic…

Hmmm… You can give a man a fish, or you can teach him to dream of fish?!?

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I’ve been a record digger and dj for a long time. Participating in that circle of life for recorded music is definitely inspiring to me.

But at the same time I try to be in the moment when I am working to the utmost degree possible. I want that recording to be the essence of the moment if at all possible. It’s like taking a Polaroid of an event, it’s a slightly fuzzy way to instantly bring back the feeling.

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For me at least, very hi res anything (photo, video, audio) tends to be most useful as a document of specific tangible happenings. This is an approach that works very well if that kind of documentation is very important to you.

Lower res media tends to elicit more in the way of feeling for me. In terms of what I’m looking for when I make music, feeling is the most important thing for me which is part of why I have gone down the route I have. For example I got the Beastie Boys album “License To Ill” on cassette when I was 6. If I play a song from that album on CD or streaming, the ensuing 34 years I spent listening to it takes over and I just hear the music. If I put that cassette in, I get a feeling in my chest that reminds me directly of being a kid.

And it’s not just nostalgia for me. The very first times I heard Basic Channel’s early material which was covered in hiss static and grime, it immediately gave me mental images of fantastic places and events I’d never actually experienced. And while I like both of their more recent material as well, it definitely doesn’t transport me in quite the same manner.

———

I didn’t realize there was some limit on consecutive replies so here I am replying to eblomqvist’s last post:

I think you’re right on the money here. It can definitely start sounding hocus pocus when you speak about it, but there really is some kind of strange physical alchemy at work when you utilize a number of different real world items in order to make something that sounds barely able to be conceived much less accurately captured.

I recently did a track that featured a drum break sample from a live recording which was made into a bootleg record. The recording style and low quality record were already feeling lush and alien, pop that in a mid 80s sampler and pitch it down and it starts to sound like some kind of demented machinery. Throw some tape echo over it, and record it to 8 track cassette and now it sounds like machinery pulsing away in the bowels of hell.

Could you use plugins and try to recreate that feeling? Sure. But this simple interaction of different physical items that impart their grime onto the sound was very much in the moment and took less direct intent than it did trying to corral these unpredictable forces into something that sounds awesome.

It reminds me of DJing old mid 90s jungle with the mashed up breaks. It’s impossible to be perfect, you just try to mix it with as much energy and style as you can while flying by the seat of your pants. Compare that to having it auto beatmatched by a computer.

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Fast approaching 40 here… I strive for this and it has made making music so enjoyable lately. Letting go of the illusion of permanence. There will be a time when no sentient being cares or knows of Shakespeare. Liberation! :wink:

@NawSon’s comments got me thinking about this too. An illustration of an object can sort of represent the idea of something rather than be a representation of something actual, leaving the viewer to fill in the blanks. Maybe a lo-fi recording can serve a similar purpose. Whereas a labored and polished studio recording (which, to be clear, I often LOVE) hits the brain as sort of an exact representation of what the musician was trying to achieve, a lo-fi, one mic into a 4 track affair leaves some blanks and obscures some details and you can sort of flesh out the music yourself in some small way.

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What you say about the difference between reading a book or watching a film of the book…

I found that listening to my field recordings made with a bi-directional microphone somehow seemed to have a more immersive way of transporting the mind back to the time of the recording when compared to if it was simply a video.

So that got me thinking, since recording to cassette, or dictaphone etc can make a recording sound ‘old’ or like a memory. Is there a way to process recordings from tape to make them sound like they where recorded with a bi-directional microphone ?

I guess playing the recording made with a bi-directional mic into a stereo cassette recorder would be one way. Any others ? Plugin maybe ?

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with just ONE mic? or you mean a stereo pair of bidirectional mics (Blumlein)?

Yes a stereo pair, sorry for being vague, I have the zoom XYH-6 X/Y Capsule which I think works like the blumlein pair ?

From the Zoom site:
The XYH-6 capsule employs two angled high-quality unidirectional mics which are sensitive to signals coming from the front but less to signals coming from the sides and rear. X/Y recording is optimum when you want to cover a wide area yet still capture a strong center image, making it the perfect choice for all types of live stereo recording.

So the two mics are each uni-directional. The Blumlein technique uses two bi-directional mics (figure 8). I don’t think Zoom makes such a mic capsule. They do have an M/S capsule which has one directional mic for M and a figure 8 for S recording.

Ok thanks,
that’s good to know. So I’m wondering if it’s possible to process a tape recording perhaps with software to keep it’s lo-fi sound but add the effect of an XYH-6 X/Y Capsule or stereo pair and so on.

I will record some XYH-6 X/Y Capsule field recordings to tape and then listen them with headphones to compare them to the original version.

If you want to play with the stereo image you can put a stereo recording through an M/S plugin like Goodhertz’ free M/S plugin Midside Matrix…

Your tape recording would give you the Lo Fi quality you want, and you can explore the imaging qualities of various mic techniques with the plugin.

I love playing with M/S manipulations with M/S, X/Y, or dual mono inputs. Lots of fun. Not exactly Lo Fi. That quality comes from other techniques.

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Thanks for that will take a look :slight_smile:

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The way you describe how you think about these differences makes it sound as though you feel that releasing music is inferior. That is misguided in my opinion.

frozen and exploited in various ways

Don’t forget the impact and enjoyment music can have on others. If this isn’t your goal then cool, it’s good to know the reasons that we want create, because in the end we all need to do what makes us happy. But everyones reasons will be different so there should be no value judgement on the matter.

if I freely improvise and don’t dilute my focus away from the moment by trying to capture it, I can remain in the eternity of the always now…

It sounds to me like you use music as a way to enter a flow state. That’s a great aspect of making any art. There are aspects to releasing music that are hard work and aren’t part of this initial creative burst of energy. These can be rewarding as well though, and for me one of the more rewarding parts of the process is hearing how your hard work and art effects people once you put it out into the world. So I offer this to you as a counterpoint.

PS: I realize that you were stating your opinions about how you feel about the creation of music to see if others feel the same. Some of your statements felt non-subjective to me and it’s those sentiments that I am addressing, not you having your own feelings about it, which are of course valid.

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@Deru

Sorry if that came off as judgmental or anti-recording in any way, it’s not meant that way at all… And not meant to be anything but purely subjective…

I love making and listening to recordings, and have greatly enjoyed many of the recordings by Lines members, as well as my own, which I am happy to say I can actually still listen to, apparently unlike some recording artists who report that they can’t stand to listen to their own records… I wouldn’t find that very pleasing for myself, but I do get it conceptually…

My current pondering is more in the direction of how might I best spend, and enjoy, my own naturally diminishing amount of time remaining to chase this musical muse… At 60 I’m not yet “old,” but the river is flowing in one direction, and it’s not lost on me that the adventure won’t last forever…

Flow state is indeed much of what I crave, and having spent probably years of cumulative time in editing states, I’m finding those aspects to be less nurturing of the parts of my being that feel most in need of nurture at the moment…

Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate the exchange!

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Cool. All good!

I just wanted to make the point that while enjoyment in the process is paramount it is sometimes the things that are hard and that we struggle with that are the most rewarding in the end. There’s therefore value in including that struggle as part of the process imho.

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