hehe may not pan out

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If you look at Erbe’s white paper, on the second page, you’ll see a top level diagram of the algorithm with two inputs. I’m speculating, but it’s possible the idea was to enable the user to inject something different into the second input of the algorithm. For giggles.

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During the Sound &Recording podcast Q&A with Tony Rolando, mid April I think, I asked Tony about a new Reverb module. He answered that it wasn’t planned at Make Noise for the moment.

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I’m thinking their next model will be the long awaited update to their mult.

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this is aimed not at the posters in this thread but rather at the larger Panning Discourse.

I know there are plenty of times where mono is superior and I am an adult capable of deciding when I want to use which.

some of us make music primarily for headphones consumption and don’t particularly care about what works on the dance floor or on a mono system. the push for more true stereo Eurorack modules is wonderful.

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This would be so much better if presented without the value judgments. I personally like two channels of bass, and absolutely enjoy stereo-widened bass as well as independent left-right low frequencies. There are phase issues with bass. 1/ the room can destroy it — most rooms respond poorly to soundwaves of this size already, and independent waves coming out of two speakers start cancelling out in unpredictable ways, or individual waves sound either weak or exaggerated at the nodal points. 2/ in bass-managed systems the bass in all channels is piped through one sub: strict mono, lacking the psychoacoustics, louder if the two channels were the same, but also quieter with negative correlation. 3/ cutting stereo bass to vinyl causes mechanical problems with the groove so basically must be avoided.

/aside

where is the discussion of mono reverb? It has focus and musicality of its own.

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Yeah should maybe be its own thread. I also love stereo-bass. Its also a stylistic thing, its always been like pop music has centered bass, underground genres have wider bass. I think the techno aspect of it has always been more about being vinyl-ready than what sounds good, pretty sure alot of techno producers especially those inspired by industrial and other 80s/90s underground genres probably actually wanted to keep their bass stereo as their sources of inspiration.

Kush Audio has discussed this stereo thing in podcasts and some videos too recently. I can recommend looking those up. One big point for mono and extreme panning, I think its called LCR, the thing the Beatles did for example, is that sounds can sound more punchy. And that inbetweens are more diffuse and unfocused sounding, but that is great for modular textures imo!

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Agreed with this. Besides, there are also many many people who use eurorack for their own enjoyment, without goals of releasing music. I for one definitely enjoy patching a lot more in stereo!

As for the question of Erbe Verb v2, the reverb in Mimeophon is actually awesome and fully useable to create a 3D sense of space. I don’t really use other reverbs since I got it (unless I’m using my 2nd system that only has a spring reverb, in which case I use an OTO Bam for creating a stereo space). It may not be as flexible and wild as the Erbe Verb, but the interactions between Feedback, Halo and Color are really interesting, and cry out for modulation/manual wiggling.

Here’s a track that I made that only uses Mimeophon, no extra reverb added:

I’ve actually had quite a few people ask me what reverbs I use on that album, but the answer is just Mimeophon or a few very subtle reverbs on the two tracks where I used a DLD instead, just set like a room tone!

I would LOVE an Erbe Verb in true stereo, but it’s not really missing from what is currently available from Make Noise.

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I’d like to see an Erbe coded FFT RxMx.

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I must stop reading this thread because I want more and more an Erbe :sweat_smile:

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I’ve already started saving for v2.

The reason the Beatles mixes prior to Abbey Road, and Motown mixes sound better in mono is because those were the primary mixes done for market. Stereo before '67-68 or so was not widely adopted yet, namely not for radio. For the Beatles, that also means they attended the mono sessions. The stereo stuff was just an afterthought done separately, and Capitol in remixing for US market hardpanned and filtered the material. A complete disaster.

See

Mono vs stereo bass is really best discussed with an experienced mastering engineer. Suffice it to say, mastering engineers typically do not use one sub. They use two subs or better yet, two full range speakers, like Duntechs, B&W 802s, or more recent designs. They need all the information to make proper decisions. To me it’s genre and medium dependent what approach works better, e.g. classical vs rock. And vinyl has problems with bass and sibilance, as eesn pointed out.

I like dual mono reverbs and panned delays when dealing with panned mono sources. But if you’re dealing with a stereo mic capture or stereo reel, then you’ll want a true stereo reverb as an option for sure.

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New video premieres today (Wednesday)!

The first Make Noise module was the modDemod, released in early 2008. The name is short for modulation/demodulation, which is the process of extracting a signal from a carrier wave in communications technology, for example in radios. The modDemod has been out of production for a long time, but its legacy lives on in the modDemix.

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Two month ago I asked about some recommendations to extend my Shared System with more stereo capabilities.
I now have a half full skiff and I think I’m finished with this project and I want to share a bit about my experience.

My current rack is here:

I now have a QPAS and I also replaced Echophon with Mimeophon. I liked Echophon, but never really found a use of the pitch shifting in my jams. (Except that I had a lot of fun with my 2yo kid playing with nothing more then a mic and the Echophon, but that was not very musical jam :smile:) Both modules are great and helped me to get my modular in the direction I wanted.

For modulation I went with a combination of WMD/SSF Modbox and Befaco A*B+C, instead of a second Math. They are still simple modules compared to Zadar or Stages. Modbox gives me 2 synced LFOs, a noise source and another sample & hold. No envelope generator compared to Math, but I already have three in my system. A*B+C is similar to ModDemix as it is a ring modulator/VCA/mixer, but it also provides two attenuverter and offsets. This is handy for modulating the SOS and Mix CV inputs of Morphagene, Erb-Verb or Mimeophon.

I put a 2HP Verb as an end of chain reverb. It doesn’t have much control (size, damp and mix), but it does sound nice for my use case. I don’t think it is a true stereo reverb, but it has stereo inputs and I only use it with a 10-20% wet mix. My original idea of using Worng LRMSMSLR would have allowed me to use the Erbe-Verb as an end of chain reverb, but having the Erbe-Verb as an effect for a single voice to go crazy without ruining the whole mix is a much better option.

I use a simple Intellijel 2x3 unity mixer to mix three stereo sources before going into the 2HP Verb. I also have a Befaco STMix for additional mixing. The STMix was the first module I received and I immediately enjoyed that I could use the stereo out of Morphagene without having the Morphagene as an end of chain effect.

I dropped my plan of getting an X-PAN. I had one on order, but they moved the shipping date from August to February 2021(!). I’ve confirmed this with another dealer: Make Noise won’t be shipping new X-PAN modules this year (at least not shipping to the two dealers here in Germany I talked).

Instead of upgrading to a Verbos Scan & Pan, I went with a minimal solution: A Doepfer 134-2 Dual Voltage Controlled Crossfader. The normalization of the module allows for panning with CV. It doesn’t have any knobs, but even the X-PAN would have no attenuator on the inputs. I’ve put it next to A*B+C and use one channel of it to control panning or crossfading and to attenuate the modulation.

Finally, to get back on topic (philosophy):
I’m glad I did not bought the Soundstage as it would have moved my patching to a more central mixing, as opposed to a distributed mixing. I now have Math, ModDemix, Optomix, A*B+C, STMix and a unity mixer for mixing purposes in ~250hp and this makes patching really flexible. For example, multing one mixer output to another mixer input is like having a huge matrix mixer. The last days with my current setup helped me to appreciate this approach.

As I’ve said, my stereo project is now finished. I bought most modules used, so I can replace them in the future without any financial regrets. But so far, I’m really happy. I hope this was somewhat informative. And thank you all for your input, not only for the replies to me, but for all discussions here in this thread.

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I took delivery of a Dynamix not too long ago and realized that I inadvertently had all of the Make Noise low pass gates in my rack at the same time. I just recorded some comparison audio and will throw up a video shortly. (I have an MMG but not a QMMG. :frowning: )

I also picked up an xoh, great module. But why, oh why Make Noise could you not make it go THWUMP in my headphones when I switch off the rack? I feel like we have the technology to avoid that deafening noise.

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Recently moved my Tape Machine out of the skiff and into a CVBus Case to get the added hp for an X-Pan.
Debated going for the Intellijel 7u case but balked at paying to fill that 1u row; also I have a feeling the Centered CVBus is going to have an impact on my patching.
What else do I need from the Shared System, and what could be reasonably left out? Seems like most MN modules are hard to find at the moment, might be looking at alternatives to the DPO. Still having a blast with 0-Coast as my main voice.

René 2 and Tempi are chef’s kiss

Optomix is great also! If I was redoing my Shared System sans-DPO, I’d toss in a pair of STOs and a tELHARMONIC if I had the space!

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Rene 2 is pretty hard to find right now! I was lucky to get a 0-Ctrl early so I’ve been using it for most of my sequencing thus far. Telharmonic is really tempting too, and I’ve been comparing DPO with the Instruo CS-L.

Always a good practice to turn down volume when switching off gear. I have an old Mackie mixer that sounds like a kick drum when you turn it off while the main volume is up. I should sample that someday.

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How do you like the ES-9? I’m considering it for interfacing with my Mac/Ableton.

How is the latency and audio quality?