#778

Saw a Running Order announcement today: https://endorphin.es/portfolio-items/running-order/
It has simple feature that I always want to see on TEMPI – step recording mode.
TEMPI is very useful, but its lacks straightforward way to program rhythms.
Now each separate channel can play only “. _” pattern with different speed multiplayers with out changing state or modifiers and if you want to program something like " . _ . . _ . _ _ . _" , you need to use few channels and mod input or states.
I suggest to implement additional mode to step program rhythmic pattern for each channel.
Enter this mode -> select channel -> program steps -> exit mode.
Everything else should work as it was before, just replace simple " . _ " loop with programmed pattern. Also reset option for pattern could be useful.
Any body interested in such update? I think it will make TEMPI more versatile, and a bit more straightforward to play musical rhythms.

1 Like
#779

Thanks for posting, after calibration I am completely satisfied with fold behavior on my DPO

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#780

I estimate a zero percent chance of Make Noise layering a gate sequencer into Tempi.

But you could probably clock a Running Order with your Tempi.

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#781

Objectively, I agree with you, the more I work with these modules, the more I understand their philosophy. But still interested, why it doesn’t fit into the concept, maybe @walker can clarify a bit. Only Rene (in MN modules lineup) can sequence gates in such straightforward manner, sacrificing channel for that purposes.

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#782

I suspect the short of it is that Tempi “is a 6 Channel, polyphonic time-shifting clock module,” a clock, not a trigger/gate sequencer. Thus far, it seems Make Noise has not felt obliged to design a trigger/gate sequencer.

Various factors around firmware for products with microcontrollers seem to have created a widespread misconception that a digital module can do anything under the sun—indeed that it should, by default. The most preposterous example I’ve seen recently was over on the Five12 forum where a Vector customer felt the Vector ought to replicate all the functionality of Pamela’s New Workout… because, why not? I guess we could call it the Disting Effect?

IMO, Tempi already has far too many button combinations and obscure functionality as it is.

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#783

This video rules. Thank you

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#784

Another sort of related potential explanation runs: you can learn to program nearly any gate sequence by combining tempi and some maths logicking (or any other logic module), and then develop emergent patterns by changing parameters on either module // programming gates in this way feels more ‘organic’ and less ‘deterministic’ – more ‘instrumental’ or ‘intuitive’.

I’m noticing more and more this tendency to want modular interfaces and techniques that resemble Ableton, or a drum machine, rather than an embrace of the angular, tactile, and experimental applications these machines are uniquely suited for. Not sure why…

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#785

My request is not about making one more gate sequencer from tempi. It’s about making it a bit straightforward and raising complexity at the same time.

I use this technique with math a lot. Shift, rotate, run, stop plus logic is a rich operation set to create polyrytms, I also like it because you can derive few sequences from it in a process of building. But why stop there, why stop anywhere?)) Shifting and rotating gate sequences, applying Math to it is logical development of TEMPI idea. It’s all about what primitives you use.

Also as a bonus you get a deterministic way to program it, useful and fast way (always nice to have additional powerful voice), and I would argue that it’s less intuitive or organic.

#786

Agree about buttons combination, but I managed to learn them all)
Why not give the additional opportunity to the user to choose how to program pattern. Now there are two ways, in any case, there won’t be 50)
I’m sure that many Tempi owners do not use all the features and do not remember all combinations, just use them as simple clock divider. I don’t think these combinations will confuse them. And for someone it will be useful.

#787

Especially when it’s so easy to interface the modular with Ableton already!

1 Like
#788

Plug one of your logical gate patterns into the clock in on a gate sequencer. If you don’t have a gate sequencer: you can get an SQ-1 for like 80 bucks used and it takes up no rack space. Listen to the output and try to articulate for yourself how what you’re looking for is different from that – based on what you’ve said it doesn’t seem to be, so I’m going to proceed from that point:

What percentage of tempi users have some kind of sequencer in their rack OR 80 dollars to apply to unlocking this functionality should they believe it to be important? Is it likely to be over 90 percent? (I think so.)

I think your base intuition here is great: do weird things with tempi clocks then use it to drive a gate sequence. Get one kind of movement by lighting and unlighting x-o buttons and another from lord tempimangles. Great! But “resources should be devoted to increasing the learning curve such that functionality which may have application for 10 percent of users can be unlocked” isn’t something one says seriously.

Also: increasing the total amount of stuff you have to remember to operate a module that is not open source is increasing complexity. Like… Tautologically speaking. There are people (I am one) who say “how many gestures are listed in this manual? Oh yeah I’d rather devote that time to some other task.” Two additional gestures really could scare people off.

3 Likes
#789

Ok, here we go again with the why not? I can’t speak for Make Noise, of course, but some or most of these reasons would probably apply:

  1. Tempi is a finished product. It’s done. It does what it was designed to do. Make Noise has moved on to new products.
  2. Make Noise is not interested in adding functionality that is readily available elsewhere or “me too”-ing features from others’ modules
  3. You’re proposing a new mode, but there’s no physical interface support for that mode, whatsoever, and that is a good enough reason on its own, but…
  4. … but it would have to rely on some obscure button combination, and users would inevitably enter that mode by accident, because they’re not you, they do not understand what is going on, and they fuck up their performance, and now they’re angry customers
  5. … but now the new feature has to be documented, and it takes an already dauntingly opaque module and makes it more so, potentially driving away potential customers (because some of us don’t want to internalize all this stuff) and weakening the Shared System as a product
  6. Moreover, it doesn’t seem you have actually thought this thing through. How is the new mode entered? How is it exited? How you do clear a sequence or return the channel to regular operation? Indeed, what about reset—how does that work? (After all, there’s only one mod jack which IMO is already woefully inadequate for the existing functionality).
  7. There may actually not be sufficient memory or processing available in the hardware to add all this stuff.
  8. Last but not least, as a business proposition, what is the up-side? Will Tempi sales double because of this new feature? Probably not. So it becomes a question of shifting away resources to gratify a minority of existing customers, while potentially introducing new bugs, adding new confusion about an already-confusing product, handling a spike of customer service problems with customers having trouble updating their firmware, and further encouraging the problematic notion that customers are entitled to endless firmware updates to add unplanned features to digital modules! Doubling sales of Tempi might not be enough.

I think you’re right that there’s some untapped potential in combining gate sequences with the unique take on clocking that Tempi offers. The solution on a modular synthesizer lies not in software updates, but in patching multiple modules together to realize that potential. If the potential turns out to be potent enough and deep enough, there might be an opportunity to design, develop, manufacture, sell, support, and service a new module that combines Tempi-inspired features with manual gate sequencing.

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#791

Pick up a Launch Codes. They are great.

1 Like
#792

One of the reason for such feature request is ability to store this gate sequences in tempi states, synchronized to Rene and sequenced by Z-axis on it. Its great for life performances.
I have additional gate sequencer, but it doesn’t follow internal CV Bus states, so even six SQ-1 can’t do this work well. Also sequence should rotate with it channel, copy, mutate and all that beautiful tempi stuff.
About learning curve – this mode for sequence programming is not mandatory to use, but just this programming with out Tempi magic is plain, simple and understandable to a wide range of people with out explanation). So it makes Tempi more accessible.

@mdoudoroff I am totally agree with you about cost of every new feature, it’s not just time to program it, it’s also customer support, testing, writing manuals, making promotion videos – as you describe.

I am sure that Make Noise is guided not only by business goals, they try to do what they like. They do art, of course taking business issues into account. And I just speak about feature to improve from my point of view, and what I classify as beautiful usage of Tempi module. Tempi is good as it’s own, I use it a lot.

I can expand this idea in more detail about how I see the interaction with this mode. What difficulties I see in implementation, how much memory will be required to store and apply these sequences, how CPU usage will increase and other details and tricks. I like to talk about it, but judging by the reaction of the community it is not very interesting for anyone)

#793

Thanks, nice module, but I dream about deep integration with state storage over CV Bus

#794

Yeah so that state storage stuff is really unique to those two modules. I’m not really familiar with it, but I do grasp the basic concept.

Sounds like you want TT + Ansible, honestly. You can program it to work a lot like Renee (this is part of what I do, actually), and have a lot more control over mutual recall of combinations of settings. If CV bus states are themselves CV’able, you could just add teletype to the existing set up as a gate manager.

I’m trying to offer a practical solution so you can attain this dream, since odds are ~0 of that tempi update happening.

2 Likes
#795

It’s interesting to discuss, in the sense of whether this sort of feature might make sense in the context of Tempi’s existing functionality and its place in the Shared System. I personally think it would overly complicate what is already one of MN’s least immediate modules (the many button press combinations have always been difficult for me to memorize, at least), and at least part of what I think you’re describing could be partially achieved by Tempi and Rene together, or by patch programming Tempi itself. But, that’s just my take.

My own opinion is also that Make Noise tries to give you what they think are a minimally redundant set of tools, with the intention that the limitations that presents cause you to think creatively. This isn’t to say that clever, creative things couldn’t be done with a 6 channel trigger sequencer, or that it’s a bad idea per se. But, it’s ground already covered in some ways, and it would bring something not really necessary to the Shared System instrument.

I read your posts as attempting to make a feature request to MN. Which, that might not be your intent actually! But if you were, this is not at all an official channel. Walker does chime in here sometimes, but this isn’t really a way to reach Make Noise. AFAIK Make Noise doesn’t really solicit design feedback from the community (I might be totally wrong!)

A feature request like what you’re suggesting is most likely impractical & unlikely for MN to implement for all the reasons other people have brought up. If MN modules were open source, people would probably be directing you to try your hand at rolling an alternate firmware. But, the modules are not open, which is MN’s right.

Given that, people are making various suggestions on how you might accomplish your stated outcome. I don’t think that’s the community being disinterested! The community is trying to help you achieve your musical goal, while also being realistic about the extreme unlikelihood of this being added as a feature to Tempi itself.

I definitely can relate to bring frustrated an instrument or module or software is not doing things that would be useful, but I also view this sort of thinking as being upset about a “gravity problem”, meaning, pushing my bike up a hill is hard work and therefore that makes me angry that gravity is acting on it and making it heavy, so someone else should fix gravity.

The more effective way of achieving your goal is almost certainly adding another module to your mix, or else using something like Teletype or Max to roll your own. Or, design your own module take on Tempi with the trigger sequencing built in. That might be interesting to prototype!

People here are generally friendly…I wouldn’t want you to think the community is hostile. I think people are just trying to help you and being realistic about what is and is likely not possible.

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#796

I understand that community is trying to help me)) thanks for detailed answers, it really helps me to understand the philosophy behind the shared system, accepting all the restrictions/limitation and work with it.

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#797

We’ve kicked around the idea of adding a gate sequencer mode to TEMPI but it does not look likely, in part because of some of the reasons speculated on above by @mdoudoroff and others. In short, TEMPI is a clock divider that stretches that concept so far it approaches “gate sequencer” functionality, but in the end it is still a clock divider, not a gate sequencer. If at some point we were to make a gate sequencer it would be far more likely to be on dedicated hardware.

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#798

New video today, revisiting some classic PLL concepts

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