Marketing without Social Media

i was thinking about starting a new topic, but maybe mods will just move this to one of the various social media threads if it gets sufficiently off topic. While looking for a better topic to reply on i found this: Marketing without Social Media which is interesting.

I think social media sites all have their certain grossness. instagram is interesting because it centers the image as the mode of communication which is different than a lot of social media sites. In that way it can be a beautiful and charming place to interact with little visual poems, little hugs from beyond, little peaks into rooms full of nerds talking about a bug after 25hrs. as with all things it depends where you look, who you follow. of course there’s all kinds of toxic stuff there, on the other hand there’s a lot of synth-interested (syntherested?) eyes over there so it seems like it’s make noise going to the audience more than anything else.

(you got flagged but i’m going to post this for now anyways and delete it later i guess… did they get flagged for being off topic or…?)

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Flagging is a community feature; nothing to do with moderation except it notifies a mod for further attention. It’s just Lines’ rarely-used version of downvoting, which is little-deserved here IMHO. But this is only the 2nd time I’ve seen it used in apparent pearl-clutching against an innocent (if somewhat impassioned) post. Wonder how many flags it takes to hide a post?

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Speaking as a marketer (which I am among other things professionally) I think:

  1. Each channel has a place in a media mix.
  2. The fact that social media is free to use does not mean social media is free - it takes time to cultivate and manage.
  3. How the channel is used also has a lot to do with who your target audience is and what sort of brand identity you are building and/or supporting.
  4. Success on social media is more than just favorites / views - and its sometimes hard to figure out what benefit it delivers.

Tbh it is not something I’ve relied on but that may have more to do with the sorts of products I’ve marketed.

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oh of course, in my head it was moderators but they wouldn’t be flagging posts for themselves to look into XP

So, hey, mailing lists, ads. What else works for (online) marketing without social media?

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Note: this post is off-topic to this thread, but so it goes:

I flagged @nutritionalzero’s post for being off topic to Make Noise modules: design, usability, theory, philosophy, etc, which it was IMO. I don’t mind outting myself.

I am not a mod, obviously, but I raised it to mod attention with my opinion that it might belong in a different thread.

It was not a downvote. It’s a very worthy topic of discussion. I think this thread is a great place to continue looking at why a successful (by modular standards) company might choose to use social media to communicate about its work.

No disrespect to the post itself was meant. Honestly in this thread’s context it’s more likely to prompt good discussion.

If we want to talk about flagging and the ethics or effect on the community of that, that belongs in Meta.

:heart:

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(they were explaining to me my misunderstanding of the flagging, i was thinking it was the moderators preparing to delete the post, but yes further discussion will be in meta thanks for helping to explain!)

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Can you elaborate on what you feel is “crass” about Make Noise’s instagram usage? I’m not trying to defend instagram here, just trying to understand why you feel the way they use it is any better or worse than anyone else, and deserving of that label.

My personal opinion is that I quite enjoy their content, whether it be on instagram or otherwise and find it frequently thought-provoking, or inspirational.

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I think this view of Make Noise is too romantic by half. In terms of the facts on the ground, Make Noise “play the game” much more than Monome, Mannequins, Mutable, O|D, even Cwejman. Here by “play the game” I mean, roughly, “act like a company” in the sense of the pursuit of profit, developing for the NAMM / SuperBooth cycle, etc… basically “compete against Arturia on their turf,” if you’ll let me pluck a random example. To my mind Instagram makes perfect sense in this picture. After all, what’s an anarchically-branded company to do if they wanna keep a little advertising buzz simmering at all times? Start an insta.

(I tend to be kinda to-the-point so in case my bluntness seems like hate, let me elaborate a little on what making this critique means to me?) I really enjoy Make Noise’s Instagram, actually! Their little patches and artsy 0 Coast photoshoots are very pretty. My critique is not really a criticism, except in the sense that I dislike privileging the pursuit of profit over more… interesting or meaningful reasons to Make anything. So I don’t intend to dunk on Make Noise specifically even though my first paragraph could be read that way.

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100% agree. They are definitely on, for example, Elektron level in terms of online branding.

I always welcome discussion like this about social media and I think it’s important, because it’s no secret that in so many facets, social media has been a destructive force. It’s why long ago I “unfollowed” everything and everyone on Facebook, thus eliminating the “feed,” and it now exists there for me as a dormant way for old friends to easily get in touch with me if they wish.

Instagram is the one big social media I actually interact with, and this was a deliberate choice after trying it out for a while. I follow other musicians, visual artists, actors, writers, etc. I adore who are often posting great snippets of their creative process. It’s not a perfect platform, and in many ways, just like everything else, is carefully engineered to keep you scrolling, but all it takes is a little awareness and that ceases to be an issue, at least for me.

With all due respect this feels unnecessarily aggressive, when you yourself admit you spent a grand total of four hours on the platform- and it sounds to me like you went into it wanting to hate it anyway, which is fine and I’m not here to convince you that your disdain is invalid. Especially disdain in general towards social media I absolutely agree with. But speaking from my own interactions with it over a few years, Instagram has almost single-handedly launched the beginnings of my career as an electronic artist, which is something I did not expect or even seek with my usage of it. Hard to say if that’s a good or a bad thing, but as someone who lives in rural Pennsylvania, I don’t have many other options for putting myself out there. You might say something along the lines of, I’m a shill for using big corporate social media to turn my music into a commodity, but that’s not what I did and it’s not what happened. And I think a lot of us can admit, we make music because we love to do so, but it’s also great when people listen to it and interact with it, and these days, that’s happening on social media.

It has also personally connected me with so many artists that I love, and has been a platform for great discussion about process in the comments and private messages. I’ve booked shows from the relationships I formed from meeting people on Instagram. The exposure that it provided led to a very fortunate record deal with an indie label I love and respect.

So I’m not here to encourage you to try again, far from it. Just that maybe you shouldn’t judge and extrapolate onto an entire platform from one livestream chat experience that left a sour taste in your mouth.

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There’s something to be said about giving these platforms too much power and influence, and I think that is what is maybe one aspect bothering @nutritionalzero.

I mean c’mon, we’re living in a time where facebook is trying to create their own currency, which is kind of nuts and disturbing (to me at least).

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I like outreach. Our local modular meetups have great attendance and talking to other meetup group leaders I hear meetups everywhere are growing. Reach out to us or any meetup group and we/they will be happy to have you speak or demo a product. We have had a couple people do this most notably Luigi’s Modular Supply. He showed up to all the meet ups with his new cables and dodads. He started a pop up shop at meet ups too. He is now ready to open a brick and mortar shop in Denver because the local community was so supportive. He won’t be the last success story to come from acting locally and participating in the community. All he did was reach out and ask if he can bring his cables. :grin:

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If I called Lines absolute garbage, a dumpster fire full stop, or “a place for people who don’t own gaming PC’s” with a “low intellectual horizon”…am I not in the process, albeit indirectly, insulting the people that use it?

Yes, and now newspapers are out of business, no one has a landline, and again, I live in rural Pennsylvania. The internet is a tool with incredible power, and as a result I can sustain a career as a musician living where I want, outside of a major city where I’d be paying a landlord 4k+ a month for a studio apartment. Doesn’t seem like such a bad thing to me. Times have changed.

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I think that this is a terrible comparison, no offense. Instagram is a community of probably a billion accounts, run by a company for profit. Lines is none of those things. It’s kind of like the difference between saying that America is a dumpster fire vs., like, saying Delhi, NY is a dumpster fire.

But, also, I think “no”, is the honest answer. It’s possible to criticize a platform separately from its users. This is similar to what I attempted to do with my earlier post.

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Instagram is entirely about what you choose follow. Yes, there are ads. Like any platform, you learn to ignore the ads.

I mostly follow friends, and get a stream of nice moments: vacations with kids, beach sunsets, hikes, pet pictures. I also follow a smattering of modular video artists, and I see what they’re working on.

I’m not exactly defending Instagram (and I have personally left Facebook for a variety of reasons), but it’s really what you make of it. You are not required to follow the Kardashians.

Also, more memes on Lines please, in an appropriately cordoned off subtopic.

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None taken and I see the fault with my comparison in general. Nonetheless while I was reading @nutritionalzero’s initial point, it felt like an insult to me, not at all intentional, but that’s sort of how I read such strong words about a platform that I use regularly. If I’m using such a emoji-ridden dumpster fire with a low intellectual bar on a daily basis, I must be pretty stupid. That kind of thing.

Point accepted and I love the way you put it.

I mean, Instagram is literally what you make of it and what you choose to follow. There might be the odd ad put into the feed here and there, but they’re usually innocent enough and easily ignored.

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Therefore, cinema is bad? Because it’s a broadcast medium? Newspapers are bad because they’re not participatory?

I don’t think anyone is arguing a forum like Lines is anything like a broadcast medium like Instagram.

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Ha, for sure! But of course a part of that is because of the mechanics of it being largely a mobile app. But also, I don’t know, not everything has to be the most deep and intellectually stimulating thing ever. People reacting with stupid little emoji’s on the Make Noise livestream for example is obviously not substantive, but at the core- it’s just people who are enthusiastic about some cool obscure music tools made by a cool little company in Asheville. Not the worst thing in the world.

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Wait, there’s membership cards? Am I missing out on something, or breaking some rule? Sheeeeeit. Are there MORE fees?