I’ve started.
I already have an API lunchbox (4 slots) that I bought in, wait for it… 1993…
I’ve taken a 512b and a 550b from that and ordered a modded dbx 560 to go with them as a ‘channel’.
‘Channel’ 2 is the Cranborne pre/DI and Lindell audio 7X-500 compressor and their take on Pultec style EQ - PEX 500
‘Channel’ 3 starts with my Demeter DI, which sits under the rack connected to a Kush Electra EQ, which should be here in a week or so. I’m very excited to try this as i think it should work somewhere between the API and the Lindell in sound and functionality.
Obviously these ‘channels’ can interact and don’t need to be discrete at all. One cool feature of the rack is the aux buses, which allow outside sources to be mixed with the mix bus for monitoring (DAW for example). What I expect to use it for is to mix channel outputs to then record through either unused channels or other gear connected to Audio interface.
I also have a Meris Hedra coming https://www.meris.us/product/hedra/ which will move between the 2 cases. I’m hoping to use it mostly for vocals so it will go in the API case mostly.

5 Likes

Sweet! Yes it will save some $$$ if you no longer need an extra interface!

in case anyone is looking for a cheap interface with dc-coupled outputs, i just saw this guy giving away a pair of old motu 2408s over on sweetwater’s used section: https://www.sweetwater.com/used/listings/17149-used-motu-motu-2408mk3
https://www.sweetwater.com/used/listings/17148-used-motu-motu-2408

2 Likes

Those old 2408s were rock-solid. Is it a cabling/connection issue that has them out of date I assume?

1 Like

I think it requires the PCI card which I don’t see. Still, would be a nice stand-alone format converter.

1 Like

I have never been able to get the PCI card working on a modern Windows box. Maybe I should give it another shot.

Does anyone have experience with Zoom livetrak L-12 and modular gear? Any opinions are welcome, as this looks like a really great device for the price

Is anyone familiar with a mixer in the same price and size class as the Mackie 802VLZ4 that has at least 3 stereo inputs and at least one stereo aux send? the VLZ4 comes close with the ALT 3/4 output, but it’s a switch, so you can’t send to both main and 3/4 at the same time. pretty much everything i see in this realm has summed aux sends

1 Like

Stereo AUX is rare, even on high end consoles. But if 3 inputs is enough, there’s the Radial Key Largo.

1 Like

EDITING: This is simpler than I thought…

  • Route all channels to the Alt Bus
  • Use the Control Room outs as your stereo aux by selecting the Main Bus
  • Route the Alt 3/4 Bus back to the Main Bus by pressing the “Assign to Mix Bus” button
  • Use Stereo Aux Return to control effected mix
Leaving my more convoluted idea below in case it sparks some creativity. Its late and I'm tired.

The 802VLZ4 has some neat routing features and you could certainly create a makeshift stereo send but it would not be per channel, it would be the entire mix - it might actually be kind of neat doing it with that mixer as you could source different sources to the sends using the push buttons. How I would do it:

  • Send each track to the Main Bus or the Alt Bus - this happens post pan and post fader
  • Use the Control Room outs as your stereo aux by selecting the Main Bus
  • Use the stereo Aux Return to control the effected mix keeping levels in check for feedback
  • You could alternate between the different mix buses for the Aux Send by using the buttons, completely effecting some tracks and not others, getting creative with the other stereo input (tape).

This will screw up monitoring over headphones as the Control Room mix and the headphone mix are one and the same - you’d have to have to monitor from your PC or recorder if you are recording which should be easy to do at the interface.

If you can split the signal from the Control Room out or if you are processing with an effects unit that has a dry output, you could route this dry signal back to channels 1&2 if they are otherwise unused. If you need the preamps from channels 1&2, you could route the dry signal into the insert returns and route the insert sends to the Tape inputs and route these to the main mix using the buttons.
It would also be worth figuring out if the Channel 1&2 inserts are always sending - the block diagram seems to indicate no but this would also really open up some possibilities.

2 Likes

I’m having some trouble understanding how sends work. I have a Yamaha MW10C and whenever I put something in the send (and proper aux return) it seems like it just barely mixes with the dry signal, even when I have the effect (usually reverb) set your full wet. I can only get to say a 25% mix. I’ve experimented by running the aux into a normal stereo channel. That works mostly, but I have trouble setting the level so the effect isn’t too loud or too quiet. Plus I’d rather have that channel for another instrument potentially.

Is this an issue with my mixer? Is there maybe a setting I’m overlooking? I would upgrade in short order if I was positive that the new mixer had a send that reacted how I would expect.

looks like the effect send output on this mixer is ‘post-fader’, meaning that the amount sent to the effect output gets quieter as you turn the main channel fader down. this can be convenient for effects like delay & verb, but sounds like it isn’t what you want in this use case, since you inherently could only get to about a 50/50 mix (dependent on return levels). to achieve a ‘full wet’ signal you’d have to have your aux send be ‘pre-fader’ (or independent of the main level control) - this is a feature on many mixers, sometimes listed as a monitor mix bus since it’s a classic pre-fader aux use case. unfortunately it looks like the mw10c doesn’t have the ability to switch the effect send to pre fader and the monitor output is it’s own separate output of the entire mix. it does have inserts, so you could use those to get a full wet mix on an individual channel if you wanted.

someone please correct me if i’m wrong here! just grazed the manual and may have missed a workaround.

2 Likes

That makes perfect sense! I don’t need to go full wet most of the time, but I’d like to be able to. Is this the norm? It doesn’t make sense (to me) to have effect level and channel volume intrinsically linked like that.

If you crank up the aux (in a pre-fader send) and turn it back down quickly, are trails still present?

Kind of weird that I know so little about mixers, but I guess there’s no time to learn like the present!

I reckon I am also after recommendations for a smallish, cheapish, 8+ channel mixer with two pre fader aux sends. :slight_smile:

Is there a device (some kind of normalled patchbay?) that would work as a kind of multiple for audio?

I currently have 2-channel audio interface that I use to record main mix from my mixer. What i want to do is get an interface with more inputs and get the ability to multitrack all channels pre-fader, pre-eq etc. and master at the same time - I often find that I have parts of recording that I really like, but mix is bad, an effect is too loud or I would want to use something else altogether, something could be faded out and in and isn’t and I don’t really have a way to fix that. At the same time, I want to preserve the immediacy of working with physical mixer, without even turning my pc on (I don’t always record), so mixing ITB is not really an option.

From what I gather, inserts can be used to get direct out, but I would prefer to keep the option of plugging effects there and usually these are not on all channels (I use stereo channels as returns). I know there’s a Soundcraft mixer that doubles as an audio interface, but it doesn’t have inserts and I would prefer to keep interface and mixer separate anyway, so I can upgrade them if need be (or if something breaks) independently, moreover I would like keep the mixer as simple as possible (Soundcraft EPM8 is perfect).

So I started thinking - does something like patchbay that would allow sending one input to two outputs simultaneously exists? or am I overthinking it and there is a simpler solution? I am not doing that much routing right now, so patchbay may be an overkill, on the other hand the idea of having all the cables routed in the back and just patching it in one place seems really convenient

Could anyone recommend me a small but good audio interface to use for live shows? It doesn’t need many I/O just needs to have the fastest speed to avoid latency. I’m kinda lost in so many models these days.

I use RME UCX for live shows. Very portable with 8 inputs for mixing. Can get very low latency but this also depends a lot on what things you are doing on it on what computer etc.

1 Like

Take a look at the new MOTU M-4.

Crazy low latency. Great features especially for the low cost…

3 Likes

RME Babyface Pro here. Very compact, very reliable, extremely low latency and great drivers. Also works with iOS in class compliant mode if needed.

1 Like

I have a MixPre 10 that I love but have been debating getting the MixerFace by CEntrance as a simple no GUI option for when two inputs would be ok.

For live mixers, yes, because if you turn down the lead vocalist you don’t want the reverb mix balance to change as the voice changes in level - you want the whole signal as a set to change. Otherwise if you wanted to turn them down or up, you’d have to simultaneously change the ratio of send, and that’s not really feasible when dealing with lots of signals at once in the middle of a show. Usually the types of effects on the aux sends never need to get even close to 100% wet (reverbs in live contexts are often quite minimal, compression is sometimes used in a parallel “upwards” style to prevent dropouts and equalize the occasional moments when the mic distance is uncontrolled, delays are usually not heavily prominent (the venues often have excessive reverb and untuned delay anyway, so adding much more is almost never a good thing for clarity). And nearly all small mixers (except perhaps some boutique offerings) are largely oriented towards gigging band live use as much or more than studio utilization.

For signals which need to go to 100% wet, you’d traditionally use inserts, and for groups which share the same 100% signal at the full mix (e.g. drum bus compression) you’d use an insert on a bus, and have the channels send to the bus instead of the master.

Studio usage is not radically different - each channel of a mixer is really thought of in general isolation from an effects standpoint and the inserts are used heavily to customize each channel’s effects set - in companion with a sideboard patchbay which has all insert sends and returns on one level and most of the studio’s effects patched into a second adjacent panel for rapid connection in series through any insert chain.

For flexible usage, as @madeofoak mentioned, some mixers offer the option to “flip” the source position of the send on certain auxes from post-fader to pre-fader for monitor usage (musicians always hear themselves at the same volume regardless of the house mix) and this makes occasionally for some creative utility when using send effects like 'verb and delay, but it’s not really a replacement for an insert, because you still have the dry signal going through the master fader and ending up “somewhere” that needs to be either muted or routed appropriately.

Mixers are not really intended for dynamic “routing” of multiple channels through multiple effects in any combination - for that you’d want a matrix mixer if you need more than the on/off routing of a patchbay.

Yes, most patchbays offer this functionality, even the cheap (and effective Neutrik 48-point 1/4" ones you find at any music store or online - I have one, I’m quite happy with it). Learn about “normalization” and the opportunities this offers for flexible routing. I have mine set up so that the signal from my sources runs in the top rear port, is default normalled to both the bottom rear port AND the top front port, and I have the recording interface (or mixer in your case) coming out the bottom rear. So by default the signal flows directly through to the recording interface and a copy of it is available at the top front port. If I plug a plug into the bottom front port, it breaks this normalling and connects directly to the recording input, so I can override the default source (which is still available at the front). This lets me insert an effect in series with the signal to the interface, or replace the signal that the interface sees with another entirely different one, as I have need from moment to moment.

It’s important to note that patchbays are passive - connecting a source to multiple destinations at the same time can change the impedance the source sees and depending on the specific electrical characteristics of both the source and the connected “listeners” the frequency response and level may chance in significant and unexpected ways (e.g. you may get rolloff or filtering, you may see that one source sees a much higher or lower level than the other, or both sources may see a much lower level than one source alone would see, among other possibilities). You also can NOT use the patchbay as a mixer (e.g. using this combination to combine two or more sources into one send).

8 Likes