I’m surprised you don’t like your Babyface - but then some people prefer a more “digital” sound than pure transparency (that’s actually been noted many times on this forum). For you any decent soundcard will do then, something like a Focusrite Scarlett Mk 2 or 3 series will be just fine and if you prefer your Axe sound, you can always run your gear through it and then into the Focusrite. Tascam also makes some very affordable USB interfaces with up to 8 channels.

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In dont like babface in comparison with Axe which has top convertors on the board and chain from inputs to adc. I dont think that Tascam can help (rme should be a lot more stable at least). I try to understand the difference between (used) rme/lynx/something else

You’re aware that the RME converters are measurably, objectively significantly better than the Axe’s, right? RME is renowned worldwide for having among the best world-class converters out there, and their drivers are also well known for being the most stable (there are others that may be equally stable, but none that reliably are more stable) and in the top tier of low latency. You can buy different, but you can’t buy (significantly) better than RME and everything else from Metric Halo / Antelope / Lynx / UAD is just tiny variations on the same high technology. They’re up there with the best of the best, where the differentiating factors are not sound quality but features and upgradability and onboard DSP etc. RME are known for an incredibly transparent sound, due to an absolute lack of colouration in the recording or playback. This makes some people feel that they are “sterile” but in fact it ensures that precisely what you put in, you get out. If you want colour, add it elsewhere in the signal chain.

In contrast, the Axe has average-mid quality converters in the 110dB S/n range, limited to 48kHz sample rate, no mention of internal oversampling methods used, no mention of clock jitter specification, and a frequency spec that stops at 20Hz-20kHz. This is average gear, not top quality stuff.

Now, please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying anything like “the Axe is bad, RME are the best”. I’m saying that, from a real world perspective, the RME boxes have measurably (and realistically) significantly higher fidelity to the recorded audio from input (including and especially in the analogue preamp and line amp stages) through to the output (including the output buffers and amplifiers) and even in the hardware mixing internally. They are world class gear. However, there are tons of people who prefer, subjectively, a more lo-fi sound. They find it more pleasant or more suited to their style of music, or more to their taste. Or they don’t prioritize ultra high fidelity over other values like price, convenience, or specific features like onboard effects and what have you. The form factor of the Babyface is a good example, it is not for everybody and something more traditional like a UCX/UFX would work better for them. There are those who are not only happy with but prefer the 12-bit digital sound of OTO pedals and run everything they make through them!

So I am not saying that RME is “better” in the subjective sense, only the objective measurable sense as compared to a perfectly transparent recording ideal. If you like your Axe FX 2, you like it, full stop, and that’s “better” for you!

But, to my point, if you do like that, there won’t be much point in spending money for a massively better interface, as the quality will be limited to what the Axe can produce, so you might as well save your money and put it where it will make a bigger difference to you. So I suggest the Focusrite line since those are already significantly higher quality than the Axe and easily able to translate it’s sound into your computer and back out faithfully.

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I got sucked through a rabbit hole that started with realizing that I needed some kind of mixer, but wanted it to be rack mounted. I got a Soundcraft ui24r which was fine for a while. I am not blaming the ui24r but during this era, for the last 9 months or so, I have been very productive but suffering a lot of humming, buzzing, line noise, audible noise floor in the mixer, and electrical zapping when I turn stuff on (definitely not mixer’s fault). I think, but cannot prove, that the prevalence of USB in my setup may have contributed somewhat to this.

I tried another USB based rack mixer, and ended up with several support tickets open the first day, and so I bailed on it and the whole mixer idea. I bought a Motu lp32 and a Motu 8pre-es, which are connected via AVB. The 8pre-es is the interface + mixer, because it is thunderbolt. I have this connected to a Mac Mini 2018.

I futher simplified my workflow today by ordering a Tascam AD-3000 which will receive the mix out from the 8pre-es, and now I only need the Mac for administrative duties like running librarian software or the Motu Mixer interface, but no DAW, no active audio duties.

I have found the Motu stuff really good. I saved a lot of money. For the amount of IO I have ( also bought a couple of old digimax FS preamps for more channels when needed ), I could not have gotten the same quality and configurability for the same price using RME or anything I am aware of. Since I am using a grab bag of synths, sound quality is a lesser concern than for someone who is recording real instruments. The worst of my synths like the EMU -2500 go through the digimax FS, there is no reason to overdo it. But the sound coming from my PC is now on ADAT, and I can hear the difference in definition. On my Kronos, I can hear a difference after going digital through the 8pre-es.

A mostly digital world with no USB now has everything whisper quiet. I am not sure exactly how, but 2k usd later I am in a different situation than a month ago. Not sure it was warranted, it is more than someone like me needs.

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data point for you: I run an i7 3770S, 16GB of ram, system SSD + data in RAID1 HGST He8 (rotational HDD), and RME Fireface UCX over Firewire to dedicated PCI Firewire card. hack + macOS High Sierra 10.13, Logic Pro X 10.4. Tracking 14 channels on a regular basis, over ADAT and analog, at 64 samples buffer (5.3ms roundtrip at 48kHz). 128 if i really need to load it with software synths, but lately it’s been mostly audio.

Good to know someone’s still living in 2012 with me! I’d say my biggest issue is Windows at the moment because the FireWire driver seems to be buggy as hell in recent builds of Windows. I think FireWire as mass storage is working well enough and while I can playback/record well enough all of my offline tasks have fallen apart - Windows just ain’t jiving with my old saffire 40.

Kicking around the idea of a different audio interface but we’ll see what happens. I’ve been tracking/sequencing with a pi4 and fast track pro while my rig is filling in for another machine at the moment. Pi4 round trip latency surprisingly low!

Does anyone here have experience with the Tascam Model 12/16/24 line?

I’m looking for something that will allow me to record easily without turning on the computer but will still be helpful when it’s on. The Tascam seems like it’ll do this well. Right now I’m using a Motu Ultralite Mk4 which sounds good enough to me, works (kind of) as a mixer when I have the computer off but doesn’t allow easy recording, routing, eq/mixing, etc. I guess my primary question is whether the Model 16 would be a big drop-off in terms of sound quality or build quality somehow. It seems like a lot of features for not that much money (but maybe that’s just a positive!). Any advice would be very welcome!

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This is appealing to me.

What was the use case for the LP32? (I’ve never used ADAT). Thanks!

I’ve been thinking for a while now that I’m going to upgrade my original Ultralite with an Apogee Element 88. I use mostly Logic, but am spending more time in Ableton lately.

I work on a mix of sound design, singer/songwriter and some foley. I’d love to have a mobile rig so I could book a church for a one off session with ensembles.

I’m similar to @eesn - i7 4370k, 16 gb ram, ssd for os and hdd for data, with dedicated firewire card and an maudio profire 610 interface, Radeon r9 290 because why not ease the load on the memory and cpu a bit? My studio pc is still on windows 7.

Works very well but I am currently waiting for a profire 2626 so I could have more simultaneous inputs. I actually had a bit of driver frustration trying to get my old profire drivers to work and didn’t want to try something incredibly different.

Works well right now, pretty stable. Actually I have the opposite issue that you do: audio is fine. But if i tried to also connect an old external firewire hard drive the audio would occasionally start breaking up, and less fun was getting blue screen of death. If I skipped the hard drive everything runs great.

Since I don’t do anything too intensive this old 2015-ish pc runs great. I’m actually gonna skip worrying about a new pc for a while and just beef this one up a bit: have another 16 gb ram and internal ssd on the way. Going to attempt to move all of my plugins and samples to the ssd. Hopefully that combo will help make things even more seamless than they already are.

I dont game very much anymore, but I can still play skyrim and fallout 4 with solid performance if I feel the need. Those are really the only games I start up, and thats pretty rare.

This seeeeems like the right topic to post this. If not, sorry. Variations on this question have been asked a bunch of times, though the answer still isn’t clear to me. So, again, apologies.

I am trying to figure out what I need, interface-wise, to use CV Tools and maybe VCV with Eurorack. I currently have a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8. It has an ADAT input and an SPDIF input and output. Most of these seem pretty useless for any combination of Expert Sleepers modules that I know about. Unless, maybe (though I’m not sure), I get an Octopre. If I did get an Octopre, would an ES-3/ES-6 combo be useful? Feels like I’m stepping into the territory of just spending the same amount as I would on an ES-9 in this case.

Lots of people recommend picking up an old Motu for cheap. This seems like a good idea, though as I understand it, I would be able to send CV out, but not take it back in. Is this correct? In practice, I am unsure of how frequently I would want to bring CV in rather than audio. I imagine this is down to how hybridized one’s setup is.

Finally, in researching all of this… it kind of seems like all of these setups are kind of a hassle. Is it as bad as it seems? Is it worth it? I’m so fluent with Ableton that I’d really like to be able to sequence from there and use cv tools, at the very least.

Thanks for any help at all.

My experience is that ADAT through the ES-3 “just works”. Totally hassle-free. But you do need to have an interface with ADAT out (and you need to be content with 44.1k or 48k). Going the other way is adding on the ES-6, which you could do later. You could go the ES-8 or ES-9 route, but swapping out your interface sounds like the best plan if your modular is not the only thing in your studio.

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I will echo mdoudoroff above. The ES-3 and ES-6 with ADAT has been hassle free on the hardware side of things. It’s very much plug and play. The software side has been more mixed in my experience. No technical issues. It’s just some software is more fiddly to use than others.

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Any recommendations for a eurorack mixer with at least 4 channels and panning, ideally some stereo inputs as well?

Thanks!

With your existing interface, you can use the SPDIF output to attach an Expert Sleepers ES-4 or ES-40. From there you attach expanders like the ESX-8CV / ESC-8GT to get CV / gate outputs. The distinction between this setup and a setup using ADAT into an ES-3, is that the ES-4 / 40 multiplex all of the expander data over the single stereo SPDIF connection, so you need to encode it appropriately, and each output doesn’t run at the full sample rate of the connection. Expert Sleepers has a VST plug-in that does the encoding in a normal DAW environment, and a VCV rack module to do that in the VCV rack environment. But I’m not sure how it would work in CV tools. The ES-3 on the other hand is just a standard ADAT audio output that is DC-coupled and outputs at Eurorack levels, so no special encoding is needed and anything that can output audio will work with the ES-3.

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I picked up a Doepfer A-138s and it’s wonderful. Clean and simple. Four channels and panning, stereo out. Compact and easy, and only about $100. I have it sitting next to a Make Noise xoh which offers another stereo input and headphones / line out. That’s also pretty cheap. (You can get the Doepfer in black and they make for a handsome pair.)
image

If you need stereo inputs, the 4MS Listen Four has two mono inputs with panning and two stereo inputs.

Also, check out this page: https://doudoroff.com/mixers/

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Thank you (and also @raytracer and @DMR). Seems like ADAT would require the least adaptation of my current setup and yield the greatest benefit.

Apologies if this isn’t the right place for my question.

I recently picked up an older Allen & Heath desk (Mixwizard 20:8:2) and I tested all of the inputs before racking it in my studio setup.

I’ve got quite a few pieces of hardware routed in and out of the board (via patchbays), but now that I’ve got things set up to my specifications, I seem to have a good amount of feedback/noise/hum coming out of the main outputs and going into my audio interface.

For a week I desperately tried to track down the source of the noise, perhaps a bad mixer channel, a bad cable, or something grounding-related maybe? Well, when playing around with things last night one moment I was hearing the buzz and the next moment, it’s as though a switch flipped inside of the mixer and all was quiet and pristine!

This lasted for about 5 or so minutes before the buzzing “clicked” on again. This is strange behavior and I’m really curious what might be going on here. Is this an indication of a bad power supply? Over the course of the evening I observed this switching behavior (going from noisy to no noise anywhere) twice and nothing specific seemed to prompt it.

Hoping someone can help me understand what might be the issue here (and how to fix it permanently!)

I assume this hasn’t happened before – have you used other mixers in the same place prior to this one?

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Correct, before the Allen & Heath was in this configuration I had a Mackie LM3204 hooked up to all the same equipment, running on the same power conditioner without any noise whatsoever. Seems like it’s definitely something with the new mixer and not my home wiring or rack equipment.

It’s hard to troubleshoot someone else’s setup over a forum, so let me give you a couple general pointers…

Since you have already tracked the problem to your mixer, you don’t have to follow the signal backwards from the speakers to each and every sound source, but I mention this as it’s a good way to track down an unknown problem.

You should think the same way with you mixer - methodically going through every stage, one by one. Start with the main fader and turn it down. Does the noise go away? If yes, you know the problem probably lies downstream from there. Keep going through each channel by turning down the fader and unplugging cables to see if you can isolate the source.

If what you hear is hum, like what happens then you short a jack cable with your fingers, there could be a short somewhere, or it could be a ground loop. Since you are using a power conditioner, I would say it’s not a ground loop, but I’m not an expert. Ground loops can be frustrating because they are difficult to isolate by following the signal back in a serial troubleshooting way, but they are possible to eliminate.

It could also be a loose contact somewhere. If you shake the mixer, or at least tap it and it happens, that’s a dead giveaway.

Hope you figure it out! It’s a great mixer, very versatile and useful in a synth context with all those stereo inputs and 8 buses. :slight_smile:

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