#764

@Irving yeah I was eying that too. I have the 1620i and I really love it for all the features it has for it’s size.
cutting the sends down to two on the new line is such a loss.

(slightly off topic - do you find that the recording levels seem low when recording individual channels over firewire on your mixer? mine always feel low even when I crank it up)

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#765

There is an intentional 6db pad between the channel and the FireWire send to the computer. This was an intentional, though not well-explained or publicized design choice, and people have been confused by it and argued about it until they’re blue in the face. The short answer is that Mackie did this to give you a little extra headroom to avoid clipping the ADC. A signal set at 0 on the VU meter should generally be expected to register as -18dbfs on a digital meter in the DAW, which is totally fine and appropriate in 24 bit audio recording. 24 bits means that we can record at way lower levels, well below digital 0, while still staying way above the noise floor.

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#766

Thanks. That’s helpful. I could see it making sense on the master track but the individual ones make less sense to me. Oh well it is what it is.
I guess for my brain I just need to get a good balance between output levels and my monitors

#767

BTW I didn’t realize this was really a thread so I wanted to chime in to share my weird “Triple FireWire Nightmare Setup” that I’m still really happy with in 2020.

My setup is centered around the Mackie 1640i Mixer with FireWire (16 in/16 out). Added to this, I have a MOTU 828 mk3 firewire and a Focusrite Safire PRO24 DSP, as well as a Behringer ADA 8200 connected to one of the MOTU’s ADAT optical inputs for 8 more channels. In total, I have about 40 analog inputs. All of those are connected together with ADAT cables for word clock sync but then I use Mac OS to make them an aggregate device with the Mackie, since it has no way to sync the word clock.

What’s insane is that it all works really well, sounds great, and is improbably pretty rock solid.

Also what’s insane is that each of my adapters to connect this to a late-model Mac is a foot and a half long. FW400->FW800->FW to Thunderbolt 1/2->Thunderbolt 3/USB C. Live absurdly!

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#768

I looked at the new Mackies with some interest because I know my 1202—20 years old and hanging in there—is getting creaky and will die some day. But I’m going to replace it with something without a computer and screen in it. I think adding those things to a mixer makes it much less likely to last another 20 years!

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#769

It’s weird how the Mackie VLZ series is still in my mind pretty much the gold standard for a small cheap electronic music home studio desk, as long as you don’t need a lot of other stuff than a mixer in the same box. The old Onyx line was sort of turbocharged VLZ, while the new one feels like an entirely different product (which is good and bad).

Bought a 1202 VLZ2 with summer job money in the late '90s, used it every day for years, and as a consequence still feel annoyed every time I decide to build a small home setup around a compact mixer and buy practically anything else than a VLZ. Then realize it has half the amount of aux busses than the similarly sized VLZ, doesn’t have the ALT 3-4 aka “reverse master buss” (mute button actually routes to another pair of outputs, superb for sampling / routing stuff thru something like a Norns on demand) uses a clunky external split power supply, doesn’t have a power switch, has weird (but not unexpected) issues with noise or channel balance on some channels, or a number of other peeves.

I think the new Onyx series may have a bit too much going on the “multimedia” side of things on for my taste though. The extras are great for eg. small bands and self-recording musicians, and someone with a computer centric setup. But for someone who already has both a recorder and the specific kind of effects boxes I want, I too would rather just keep the multichannel USB, and have some extras on the analog side (maybe extra aux or two, maybe keep the ALT 3-4) instead of the FX, recording, “studio command”, BT connectivity and so on.

It looks like a good fully featured compact mixer, but also a lot like what some of the competitors (eg. Presonus) already offer - sort of a “modern” compact mixer with the associated benefits and drawbacks.

I have the old 8 channel Firewire Onyx on my desk right now, as it’s still pretty much a 8 channel VLZ with some extras - even though I don’t use the FW connectivity at all, I got it for cheap and it’s served me well so far. Considering updating to a couple more channels though. The VLZ still seems like a nice balance and has the familiar “feels bigger than it is” type features, but there’s a lot to choose from once again…

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#770

Read this and realized. I’ve got the 12-channel first generation Onyx-mixer, and reading this brings the feeling I don’t really know it well enough. I’ll try to google for “creative mixer routings” - but if anyone has a link to some online resource I’d be grateful for tips.

EDIT: It turns out reading the manual can take you a long way… :blush:

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#771

That complicates my mixer search. I’d narrowed down to either a Tascam Model 12 or a Zoom LiveTrak L-12 (those 5 headphone jacks). Now I’m wondering if the Onyx12 might be worth considering.

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#772

It’s definitely worth considering. You should also be considering the Presonus ARc, and maybe even the Bitbox Bluebox. But you may wind up with the Tascam or Zoom, anyways. The problem is that the differences that actually matter between all these different designs can be terribly hard to tease out (and they’re all personal, too).

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#773

The ARc series is looking good if a bit colorful. Glad to see they made them USB class compliant. Should be a nice companion for iPad too, especially for the pro with USB-C

#774

I love my trusty VLZ 1202, but I often feel the need for a handful of more channels to split out my modular. I flirted with the idea of an older Onyx (I’m currently using an old Motu firewire interface with the frankenstein dongle chain) but I’d rather not take the gamble for a minor workflow upgrade.

These new Onyx USB mixers are almost there as the perfect mixer / recorder, like @kbra mentioned the ALT 3-4 on the VLZ is so so handy. All considered, I’d probably edge towards the new Onyx 16 now for multi-channel recording over say the Presonus, Soundcraft and Zoom, purely because of Mackie’s legendary build quality. Neck and neck with Tascam Model 24. The i/o offerings are pretty much on par with everything else available in this product category, and I’d keep the VLZ for a sampler based set-up.

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#775

Which has gone downhill seriously in the past decade in both my own experience as an owner/user and those of my friends who work in the music industry, FYI. They got heavily financialized a while back and that’s been causing them to cut corners that they wouldn’t have before. Just my 0.02.

I’ve been hoping A&H would update their excellent Zed line, but that’s not happened yet…

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#776

Yes, I know it’s gone downhill sadly. In this regard I’m just comparing to similarly priced options - their chassis is still tough as hell and encoders are confident.
Agree with on the Zed series 100% too

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#777

The Presonus ARc got so close. Sometimes I really could use 4 stereo channels. However, it only seems to record the stereo mix to SD card. The Bluebox looks nice. However, if I’m at a jam or a band practice, I think I’d rather have a mixer that other musicians could just sit down and use.

Fortunately(?), I got distracted by a studio rebuild. So I’m not ready to upgrade my mixer just yet.

#778

OMG! You’re right. How asinine. What were they thinking?

#779

The Mackie Onyx only records a stereo mix to SD as well. So far I think the Tascam is the only one that will record the individual tracks.

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#780

I’ve always kept my AD/DA separate from my mixer so that I have more control over these things–letting companies focus on the thing they’re really good at. As a result I’ve mostly steered clear of the integrated systems (though I did get a Soundcraft 12 MTK for my collective’s studio and I have a Tascam 688 which I suppose is technically an integrated mixer/recorder but obvs not quite the same thing).

In my experience and from reading manuals of a zillion different boards, for my needs (lots of routing, recording electronics and/or live acoustic instrument and/or ensembles ranging from 2-14 players) the Mackie VLZ is a steps ahead of other mixers for routing capabilities. The only other small format mixer that comes close is the SiX, which requires some DB25 breakouts to achieve similar routing capabilities. I think when SSL made the SiX they must have literally said “Let’s make an upgrade path for everyone with a VLZ 802.” Though the SiX has taken over in my “tiny” corner studio, the VLZ802 stays with me as my go-bag mixer for live shows.

The Mute/Alt should be a standard feature on all mixers by now, it’s so handy–quad sound/4-channel recording/sampling/effects/no-input.

Above someone mentioned that these choices are personal and they are–so many variations in need depending on circumstances: live? solo studio? ensemble studio? electronics? recording? mixing? multiple people using it? price sensitivities? enticed by “extras” like effects or conversion? space requirements?

We truly live in a golden age for audio technology.

The Soundcraft 12MTK will record all the channels. I put it in my collective’s studio because it was the right mix of “enough channels to record an ensemble with drum kit,” price, and familiar mixing surface. It’s gotten a bunch of use and seems to do the job well.

It doesn’t have a built in recorder through, so it’s BYO-computer.

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#781

Yes, all of the aforementioned units will do individual tracks over USB. I was specifically referring to the SD card.

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#782

Also, (maybe I’m wrong but…) multiple sends but it doesn’t look like there are any returns so you’d have to use up a channel for that.

#783

Looks like the Zoom LiveTrak mixers record individual channels to SD card. I like that they have LED levels per channel. No experience with these mixers, but I love my H6.

Zoom LiveTrak L-20

1 Like