#101

yeah, thirding this. it’s so close to being ideal except for the interface method.

#102

Wondering if anyone has experience with the Behringer XR18. I’ve been comparing this with the MOTU Ulatralite mk4, and it least on paper it seems to come out favorable in some ways.

I am also curious if anyone has an idea how to tell from the spec sheet if a mixer/interface can handle modular level voltages. The spec sheets don’t usually seem to show a straight forward Vp-p max kind of stat.

Thanks for any thoughts.

#103

curious. What is a good way to just record from modular to mac book pro? No need for sync or anything. Just want to record live sessions. I have ableton too if that helps. I’m guessing you need an audio interface since macbook pro only has line out?

No need for anything expensive. Just a USB to TRS 1/4 or XLR? Something that doesn’t need to be externally powered. hopefully only through USB.

#104

You’ll need some sort of audio interface, yeah. There are some ultra-cheap options, but I wanna warn you about quality: no matter how you do it, the audio interface is going to be responsible for taking an analog signal (1/4", XLR, etc carrying a waveform represented as a continuously varying voltage) and making it digital. Your MacBook’s only built-in way of doing this is the onboard microphone, which will obviously be inadequate.

This is why people buy really expensive ones, because there are a lot of things you can do with digital audio up to and including minimizing how noticeable a poor recording quality is, but everything has to come through those doors, so the thought is to make that conversion the most sensitive, pristine it can be.

That said, don’t buy a Maybach when a Honda will do just fine :wink:

2 Likes
#105

@alanza hit it on the nose.

Only following up with a “just tell me what to buy…” addition: Just get a Focusrite Scarlet 2i2. $160, and It’ll “just work” and the quality and latency are quite good for the money. (the new v.2 versions on sale have very low latency, but you can find older ones used for less that will sound good, and have lower, but quite acceptable, latency for your needs.)

You could go cheaper, buy you’ll hate it in a year. You could go much more expensive, but you won’t know the ins-and-outs of what you need for a while. The 2i2 will serve you for years - be great sound - and even when you trade up to something better some day - you’ll keep this 'cause it’s handy and good.

2 Likes
#106

thanks for the input. Been eyeing the Focusrite Clarett 2Pre for a while now. Its nice that you just need USB-C for power.

1 Like
#107

Class compliant mode works for me when using Ableton. No Totalmix but I get along fine mixing in Live

#108

hey good morning
ive been trying to wrap my head around the best option for portable recording. I know @fourhexagons has the F8 but id really love something similar with faders. It would be great if it could be self contained (no laptop). I currently just go stereo out into my H5.
i know zoom has a version but i dont know if its ideal for modular use.

#109

Yo. I have no experience with the Zoom Livetrack, but I do know that Zoom makes a box of faders for the F8 and F8n.

The F8’s are definitely the way to go if you want timecode for syncing video as the Livetrack has none of that. As for the amount of headroom and the quality of the preamps and such on the Livetrack, looking at the price point, I’d suspect that it’s not to the level of quality of the F8, but that it’s likely good enough, you know. The headroom might be fine and it’s orobably worth picking up from Musicians Friend or something and just returning it if there’s not enough headroom.

Personally I prefer the modular approach of having a recorder for times when I wouldn’t want to have to bring the faders. But I can also see the benefit of just having one thing to plug in if you’re committed to faders. I like to use external effects on sends in my mixer, so therefore I do all my level control, first in the modular, and then at the mixer side so that I’m affecting the sound before the external reverbs and delays.

FWIW, I received an F8 replacement from Zoom and they ended up sending the newer F8n, which is very cool. And then I received a Sound Devices recorder as a very generous holiday gift, so I’m actually selling the Zoom at a very fair, much lower than new, price. DM me if interested.

#110

That’s true. I use system audio on macOS heavily as well as the non-class-compliant features of my Ultralite. Most of my problems have been around system audio and using the Ultralite in “driver mode”(non class compliant mode).

#111

If your plan is to integrate it with a DAW, the MOTU would be the way to go.
Very low latency for USB (lower than Clarett Thunderbolt), and the ESS Sabre32 Ultra DAC on the 2018+ models is superb.

I replaced my A&H Qu-Pac with an Ultralite MK4 + a Traveler MK1 (using as an ADAT side car), and have had no issues on Mac OS Sierra, on a 2012 Quad i5 iMac.
Using the MOTU system similar to how I used the Qu-Pac, recording through the AVB Mixer with FPGA EQs and dynamics, into Ableton Live 9 (instead of to the USB thumb drive on the Qu-Pac) .

The main reason I migrated to this system was because it allows me to employ more VST saturation FX while composing, with very little added latency, especially when choosing 0 latency VSTs.
(UL MK4 = 1.99ms input latency, 3.99ms round trip, at 64 samples, 44.1khz)

3 Likes
#112

Thanks for the detailed thoughts! I probably should have been a little more specific about my intended use case and what I see as the stand out points of the Ultralite mk4 and the XR18.

My use case is that I’ll be connecting Euro modules, and also line level gear and microphones into it for mixing and recording. The recording could be to a DAW on a PC, but I’d like to start using the iPad more for this (Auria/Cubasis). I’d also like to do some performance mixing of modular (not really for gigs at this point) via the tablet apps.

Points for Ultralite mk4

  • super low latency
  • outputs DC coupled if I decide I want to do some Reaktor/Euro integration
  • tablet control app is HTML based with built in web server (reduced risk of obsolescence due to vendor abandoning the native apps following a tablet OS upgrade)
  • MOTU reputation for quality
  • Full MIDI interface (info on whether XR18 is a full MIDI interface or not is sketchy)
  • There are at least a few front panel controls (XR18 literally has only headphone volume)

Points for XR18

  • A lot more of the input channels have physical, analog inputs (18 vs. 8 on the MOTU)
  • More input connections are XLR/line combo jacks (convenience, 16 vs 2)
  • More inputs offer phantom power (16 vs 2)
  • Much broader FX selection
  • Real time frequency analyzer built into mixing app/EQs
  • Built in wi-fi (MOTU, not sure? Guess there must be since there’s no ethernet port)
  • Has some nice performance mixing features: mute groups, DCAs, scene save/recall (MOTU, can’t really tell if these features exist - no way to demo their software)
1 Like
#113

The way this works on the Ultralite MK4 is it connects over USB to your host computer, which connects to a wireless network.

From there, most any wireless device that is on the same wireless network can access the MOTU mixer. Device controls (saving/switching presets), Routing, Mixing, Aux Mixing, and a “Touch Console” mixer for touch screens is all built into that interface.

Yea, that’s definitely a concern. I recommend a used 8Pre Firewire as an ADAT side car. They run $125-$175, can quickly be setup as a standalone converter, and due to having both ADAT in and out, it can be clocked by the newer Ultralite MK4.

Every currently shipping MOTU interface comes with “MOTU Audio Tools” which consist of FFT/Spectogram , Oscilloscope, and Phase Analysis. Unfortunately these are Mac/PC only, and not ported to iOS.

This graphic will show you all the mixing capabilities. Groups and scene save are there (scenes are on the Device tab). Additionally presets for every processing component of the mixer can be saved and recalled (EQ, Dynamics, Gate, Reverb, etc.). The only thing I’ve not selected for view are the EQ knobs as they take a lot of vertical space. (click to enlarge)

MOTU%20AVB
MOTU AVB.png2098×1229 635 KB

Whichever you decide, good luck! Both are great products.

1 Like
#114

Thanks, @AdamJay, that’s all extremely helpful!

Hmm, so it sounds like you pretty much absolutely have to connect the Ultraliite to a PC or Mac to use it in a meaningful way? I’m not planning to ditch my PC DAW completely, but having the option to not turn it on sometimes is definitely something I was looking for. For example, iPads have zero fan noise if you’re recording a mic. It also makes it very easy to move to a different space for recording.

Thanks, yeah, that makes it a tough decision!!

#115

One thing to consider is that MOTU is known for the high quality of their analog circuits (preamps, etc) and top notch digital converters. Behringer, not so much. This means the the MOTU will have higher quality capture, more headroom, and hold its own when you start mixing more complex tracks. Lower quality converters really become apparent if you start to mix down a multi track recording.

I’d also be cautious of things like built in wifi. It sound nice, but will not last as long as the rest of the interface nor stay as current as high quality ADC/DAC and preamps.

3 Likes
#116

If you want to record through it, yes. DAW required,
If you want to get in and use the mixer, yes.
If you just want to use it in standalone with a preset mixer setting, no.

Note that iOS can only be used for control, you cannot record through the MOTU, as an audio interface into your iPad’s flash storage.

1 Like
#117

I wouldn’t consider built in WiFi a positive - the folks I know that use an X-mixer (not the high end X-32) end up bringing their own WiFi. I’m sure there are some that never had problems…

I’ve got older Behringer converters as well as an older ultra lite. mOTU does a better job there and the newer unit uses ESS Sabre converters which are well reknowned. Checking Reverb, there are 41 used XR-18 units and no Ultralite Mk4s.

1 Like
#118

oh dang Sound Devices, that’s legit. Which model?
ive been looking more at the Livetrack and there’s some hardware issues when using all 1/4 ( there is bleed across some of the uppper channels)
Might consider the F8(n) or the Sound Devices MixPre-6 (gotta look at it more) I know the more expensive Sound Devices stuff has options for external faders. But the more i think about it the more im realizing i may not need the faders.

#119

MixPre6 is my interface/daw/field recorder/ambisonic recorder. The newest firmware supports several fader controllers including many from Korg and Akai. See the website for details. MixPre, pre-amping Lom mics, with Norns, Grid and a nanoKontrol2 is an awesome and complete travel rig.

2 Likes
#120

This is one of the reasons I was wondering if anyone had used one. I have some older Behringer gear with the Xenyx pres. They are acceptable for live use, but nothing special. I bypass them when recording and go straight into my Presonus interface. The newer Behringer gear has MIDAS designed pres which from reading reviews I’ve gathered are much better. But I have no personal experience with them.

Oh, wow, this is good to know up front then. It mentions class-compliant audio/iOS compatibility on their website, so I was under the impression you could.

Pretty much every review I’ve read says if you use it as the router, its terrible - can drop the connection when you’re 3 feet away - but if you use it as a client (bring your own router), it’s OK.

That is indeed some food for thought.