#306

this is easy to get around with abletons built in routing settings. create your own bus by making a new track (“the bus”), then setting the output of the tracks you want to be in the bus to the new track. set the bus to ‘no input’ and turn monitoring ‘on’. you can have an infinite number of nested groups/busses this way. i do it in drum mixes all the time.

6 Likes
#307

Whats your preferred method of doing effects send/returns for dance music?
I’m trying to figure out the most efficient/accessible way to route some channels from my mixer into my effects rack. Somewhat in the vein of that french/filter house stuff.

Currently my set up is:

Instruments
MPC200XL w/ 8outs
Digitakt
MB33
Akai AX60
Kaossilator Pro
Minilogue

Effects (in order of chain)
Alesis 3630
Akai MFC42
ARTMidiverb II

Mixer
Soundcraft MTK 22

As of now I have Group 1-2 being used as a send to the effects rack. Each track is either on/off in that routing. The return from the rack is plugged into the last stereo channel on the mixer which is routed to the Master while the other tracks are only being sent to groups 1-2. Does anybody find that parallel effects sound better than a wet only mix? Im trying to stay away from eating up all my inputs with effects returns. How do y’all do it?

#308

Really depends on the type of effect. The filter and compressor definitely makes sense in the groups, the midiverb seems like it would be better in an AUX

#309

I’d probably have a drum/percussion group that goes to a compressor and then back for one of the groups. For these channels I might only use the wet sounds or I might keep for the dry sounds (NY Compression style) if I felt like it. I’d probably wire it up pre-fader send so that I could decide on the fly whether to keep dry signal in the mix.

Then I’d have reverb as the other and send each channel (or group1 return, in case of the percussion bus) to the verb for taste. This one I’d definitely set up to keep the dry signal available as I might only be sending a tiny amount and also because I’d want to preserve panning etc.

For outboard effects I nearly always have them dialed to be 100% wet and mix them to taste with whatever I am returning them into. Only time I don’t do this is when there’s a mix knob on a compressor (again, for NY Compression). But even then I might just handle that via the mixer to keep things standardized for myself.

Some things this approach can enable that may or may not be fun for you:

Set up a super nasty compression setting. Send the drums to it pre-fader. Mute the dry drums so you only have the nasty compressed drums coming through. Now simultaneously unmute the dry drums/mute the compressor return. You can at the push of those buttons now swap between clean and nasty compression. Fun for energy changes. Be sure to set volume of the compressor return to be where you want it.

Set the reverb to gigantic empty cavern setting. Slowly fade out the dry signals so the music disappears into that cavern, then slowly fade out the group send so the music fades itself out.

2 Likes
#310

I just wanted to thank y’all @ermina @zebra @zoundsabar @emenel and @madeofoak for your feedback and ideas.

I was able to use the send-everything-to-a-track trick to get all the drums on the same bus…a slammed glue compressor in parallel really helped make it all pop more.

also adjusted some of the interplay between bass guitar and kick. I did have a steep lo-pass on the kick…getting rid of that definitely got more click. A reduction in bass compression did help too.

A bit of advice I got outside here was try longer release times for compression targeting the kick helps things “bounce” along with the track more.

6 Likes
#311

Is there a way to check a song for Phase Cancellation without listing to a whole song and watching the phase meter(if thats why you call it)? Wondering if there anywhere you can load up a song and get a graph or find out somehow. Trying to dig into some longer track that might have issues and in general was wondering because it could be a good step to take during the process for me as I have had something on my modular give me phase cancellation a lot recently.

1 Like
#312

When recording modular in stereo, I find that one of the L/R sides is about 2db louder than the other, always. I’m using a pair of balanced TRS cables from the WMD Performance Mixer to a Focusrite 18i8 inputs 1 & 2.

Any ideas what this is? Should I be focussing my diagnostics on the modular or on the interface+software end of the chain?

#313

Do you have other instruments other than the modular to test?

#314

I find that the pan pots on the Performance Mixer are sometimes hard to set to full centre. At least with mine I find that I have to dial the panning in very carefully if I want the signal to be perfectly centred. Maybe it’s just a panning issue? The VU on the PM won’t really show a 2db difference so maybe check if that could be the issue.
Also, second the advice to check with another instrument as well or maybe just patch a VCO into a buffered multiple and take the two “copies” of the signal into the LR inputs on the audio interface.

#315

So this video is made by fabfilter and of course uses all their plugins, but aside from being an advertisement it has the kind of detailed-yet-accessible knowledge I don’t see often in online tutorials. This whole “mixing in stereo” series is pretty good.

15 Likes
#316

Thanks for this - I had always been curious as to how a properly mixed track sounds spacious and at the same time sums to mono effectively. This pointed me in the right direction.

In that same vein, something I’ve been doing a lot recently is routing streaming audio (spotify, youtube, bandcamp, etc.) to the virtual tracks on my Apollo interface and then listening through my DAW with a utility plugin on the stereo channel. I’m using ISOL8 which is a M/S processor as well as a nice “Avantone” simulator, so to speak. I especially like comparing the mid and side components when there are effects involved. I forget where I learned this trick (maybe here?), it was not my own idea.

Any other effective listening exercises and tips?

#317

Plugin Alliance MetricAB has a history mode. I’ll hit play go make a coffee and comeback and inspect the graph for bad spots to look closer at.

Keeping the phase correlation as close to 0 as possible without going over. The trade-off is in order to accomplish this, you have to compress and EQ the life out of your song. So as with all things mixing/mastering, it’s all about findIng the balance.

It’s pretty easy to overthink your stereo image so be careful not to spend too much time/effort/plugins. Mixing/Mastering is about gap analysis so identify the problem, fix it and move on to the next problem.

2 Likes
#318

I’m getting ready to release some music, and wanting to put it on vinyl.

Has anyone here mastered their own tracks and produced on vinyl? Don’t really want to pay for someone to master, but also don’t want the songs to come out poorly on the vinyl. Happy with my mixes, but i guess i’m not sure how they compare to what vinyl requires…

Interested in others experience / reccomendations for reasonable priced mastering for vinyl!

1 Like
#319

I would definitely pay someone professional to master if you’re spending the money to press vinyl. It’s a really important step.

Greg Davis and Carl Saff have both done it for me for vinyl. Both are great to work with.

4 Likes
#320

I have a vinyl record that I’ll be releasing sometime soonish (it’s done, at the pressing plant waiting for me to get out of Qtine to pick up). Here’s what I did and why, your mileage may vary and everyone’s goals are unique:

My album was recorded by people who were experts at recording. I normally would do the recording engineering myself but the album was recorded at The Tank in Rangeley Colorado and that space is unique and the engineers have a lifetime of experience with it. Plus it was very reasonable.

I did the mixing myself.

For the mastering, knowing that I would be spending a couple thousand dollars on just the records and jackets, I knew that having a mastering engineer who knows how to do vinyl would be the way for me to do it. I didn’t want to spend a bunch of money of vinyl objects but worry about whether the mastering was good or not. So I hired the best I could find so that I wouldn’t be second-guessing myself had I mastered it myself. My mastering engineer also cut the lacquers.

In the process I had a few conversations with the mastering engineer and among the things he noted was that there tends to be two ways go about making a vinyl record:

  1. making a nice piece of merch that can be sold and maybe won’t be listened to very often or
  2. making something that is more of a hi-fi/audiophile document.

Both approaches are valid and great. But if you can decide which way you want to go before you get too far into the process this can help guide things. If you want a hi-fi audiophile document then you spend the money on having it mastered by someone with the experience and equipment to do vinyl mastering. If you want the nice merch direction then you spend the money on colored vinyl and other fun things like that.

Again, both ways are valid and it depends on what you’re after in making a record.

In working with a mastering engineer for vinyl consider: does the engineer have experience in the kinds of sounds on your record, does the engineer have experience with vinyl, does the engineer have a preferred lacquer-cutting facility. If you mostly just want the record to have it as fun merch, many record pressing plants can do the mastering as well and that can be a way to save some money. But if you want the absolute best, you’ll want to work with a dedicated mastering engineer.

(I should note my record is sort of a nightmare project for vinyl: double bass in a giant echo room, very very wide dynamic range)

5 Likes
#321

Realizing it isn’t as expensive as I initially though. Definitely going down this route.

1 Like
#322

Also I’d +1 having Greg Davis do it. He didn’t do my vinyl but he’s an excellent mastering engineer and has done vinyl releases before: you can get to him either via his record store in Winooski, VT or through his bandcamp: https://gregdavis.bandcamp.com

2 Likes
#323

I’d also put in a word for Taylor Deupree @12k. Taylor’s mastered all vinyl releases for me for last several years and done wonderfully

7 Likes
#324

Getting a lot of good information from this thread. Mixing has always been a little mystified to me, as i never really understood where the boundaries were/ how far to go with it…

As i’ve been referencing my mixes for an album i’m working on, i’ve been thinking a lot about “For Emma, Forever Ago” by Bon Iver. I knew that it was a minimal operation with great sound, but I had no idea that the majority of the album was tracked on a SM57(!!!) through a very standard interface. The album has such a vibe, and it was tracked on like, the most accessible recording rig possible.

For me that has kind of informed how powerful mixing and mastering really can be, and has been a driving factor to work extra super hard on mixing, because i know similar quality is possible on my current equipment. Also, kind of liberating to know mixing can be more than slaping a couple EQs down and hitting stuff with compressors… (Engineers in the room probably laughing at me, but for the indie folks… :smiley: )

9 Likes
#325

i remember a major aha moment for me, reading a bon iver interview about for emma. within a couple paragraphs my mind was doubly blown learning that it had been done with the distinctly budget/digital setup of an sm57, mbox, and light version of pro tools - and that everything on the record that i had up to then regarded as “warm” or “tape-y” was achieved by basically rolling off a ton of high end.

23 Likes