Perhaps related - I was having an issue with loaded samples sounding really quiet and distorted until I panned them all the way to 1.0 (but it did not seem to actually pan in my headphones, it came out both L/R). This was jus before the most recent bug fix update, I haven’t tried again in the past couple of days.

thanks for that, i will double check the changes to softcut pan law

Thanks for the response. I checked dust/data/mlr and there was nothing in there. I had not saved any presets so there was no data (assuming I’m right about that). Reinstalled MLR too with no luck. I have been trying various combinations of cables and devices/pre amps and am getting somewhere. I will continue to investigate over the next day but main findings so far are:

  • Thumb piano TRS out to dual TS in to Norns - monitor sounds great and in stereo but softcut very quiet (original issue)

  • Thumb piano TS to Norns Left in (with TS cable) - both monitor and playback very quiet

  • Thumb piano TRS to Norns left TRS - monitor is panned hard left, softcut volume is good.

  • Thumb piano TS to TRS in on OP 1 to TRS out of OP 1 to dual TS in to Norns - monitor and softcut ok

(I know some of that is obvious but I have listed it here anyway for completeness)

I am so far only a player on norns and have not delved on to the coding side of things so I am not much help there sorry.
If something stands out as obvious user error please direct my reading but I’ve been unable to find anything in the docs and from various threads.

i’m having a hard time suspecting the code.

norns inputs are unbalanced. TS. the R is tied to ground.

i believe what’s going on is that in mlr both input channels go to softcut. so if you feed a identical signal into norns input jacks you get 2x gain (approx).

i can make params for the mlr input.

but more, it seems like you just need to use a preamp with your thumb piano.

someone (@zebra) correct me if i’m wrong!

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okay thanks, well this context changes things and does raise some suspicions of the setup.

if these are both true:

then i have to suspect some kind of phase cancellation or other weirdness from the wiring. the crucial part is how the thumb piano TRS is wired.

in the first case, nothing is shorted - norns L/R are getting (S,T) and (S,R) from the source. if the thumb piano outputs a balanced TRS signal then this explains things because it’s wrong: in a balanced TRS cable, T and R are the same signal, but 180 deg out of phase. so when you put them into L and R norns inputs, and then sum those together in the box, they will cancel.

(whereas in the monitor path when monitor mode==stereo, you will hear the same signal in both ears, but in opposite phases - which is not however obvious to your ears and brain.)

in second case, well i’m not clear what OP-1 input really looks like but seems like you are shorting R+S at the source before anything else happens. (unless you meant TRS->OP1). if my theory above is correct then this will now work because you’ve effectively thrown out the negative-phase signal, then split the resulting mono signal in the OP1.

(again this is your thumb piano has a TRS mono balanced output, as opposed to TS mono output, or TRS stereo output.)

i would check the following:

  • what happens if you edit mlr source to take only input 1 to softcut instead of summing? (comment out this line)

  • what happens if you use mono monitoring mode? (system audio option)

also sorry if you said this, but is this issue totally repeatable or is it intermittent? if repeatable, have you tried other (e.g. line-level, mono) signal sources?

Thank you @tehn and @zebra . Mono monitoring mode (which I had thought was an option but couldn’t find in the docs and somehow overlooked in the audio options) fixed the issue for this use case.
I’m a little embarrassed and thank you for your help.
In the problem solving process I discovered combinations of devices and connections that didn’t behave as expected so I will investigate some more with this and your above comments in mind and rule in user error or get back to you on it.
Thanks again

woa wait a sec, you’re saying that if you switch to mono monitoring mode then mlr output suddenly sounds ok? that’s hard to explain.

just to be clear:

my hypothesis (testable) was that you were getting extreme phase cancellation between L/R inputs to softcut, b/c you were using a TRS stereo -> TS dual mono splitter with a mono balanced input signal.

under that hypothesis, switching to mono monitoring mode would make the same cancellation occur in the ADC->DAC “monitor” path as in the ADC->softcut->DAC “mlr” path.

this can easily be put to rest one way or another by telling us whether the source signal is, in fact, balanced mono or something else. please let me know this information so that i can stop thinking about this and maybe sleep tonight

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the lua code to accomplish this should not be difficult, but i’m not going to do it because MLR isn’t my project, its not structured in a super modular way, and i’m liable to create errors and/or rewrite huge chunks of the thing if i jump into it.

what i have done to help is modify the audio backend such that sample load/save doesn’t stall other operations. this was nontrivial but it seems to be working. right now i will button up the last changes for this: crone->lua notifications so that script actions can be taken when save/load is complete on a given job.

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No, sorry I wasn’t clear.
Thumb piano TS out => TRS norns left input with monitor set to mono works. I was using TS=> TRS because it was handy. I have since checked TS to TS cable with TS out from piano => TS norns left input and this works well too (i can’t actually removed the jack as its mounted inside with glue possibly).
Using TRS out of piano to dual TS into Norns with monitor mode set to mono results in both monitor and softcut being very quiet (as opposed to monitor mode set to stereo where the monitor was fine but softcut was very quiet).

I will contact the manufacturer and see if the output is mono balanced to confirm this

thanks for your help and also on Awake. I requested other coders for help because I’m pretty sure @tehn is too busy on more higher level priority Norns stuff, and doesn’t have time to do it. I know it’s been on the to do list for a long time now.

IMHO this is sufficient evidence for acceptance of the hypothesis. Your instrument has balanced output, and you will get best results with a proper “balun” adapeter or preamp (depending on whether the instrument has active gain stage or not). in absence of balun adapter, a TS -> TS cable will do (but will result in 1/2 amplitude signal.)

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I am sorry for the delay and will set aside time today

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updated to 2.2.4

files in params, works. load behavior is a little weird if existing clip is playing. trying to decide what makes sense.

also fixed a few little issues in the process (clip selection was sortof busted on the grid screen)

please test and give some feedback on this!

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Awesome! Thankyou…sorry for bugging you about this :slight_smile:

not at all— i apologize for the delay. i’ve been mistakenly emphasizing working on infrastructure, should be putting more time on scripts!

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I’d be nice to see lfos and filters per voice :slight_smile:

I am having some issues with activating and deactivating clips on the grid screen. As best I can tell it appears that if you have a pattern playing that has movement in Cut mode, then when you are trying to deactivate clips on the Rec/Speed page, other clips will reactivate. So if I have a pattern that causes clips 2, 3, and 4 to jump around and then mute one of them, two might mute. If I then mute a different clip, two others might turn on.

I haven’t quite narrowed down the specific behavior, but have been able to reproduce consistently.

I am on the newest version of mlr and have never experienced this before, but can’t say for certain that I have tried to do this exact thing previously.

Please let me know if you have any questions, and thanks again for all of your work on this!

EDIT: Actually, I wonder if this is intended behavior, since selecting a different part of a track on the Cut page will normally unmute the track. Sorry to be a bother if this is the case.

Hopefully someone has some insight on my problem… I updated my Norns and mlr but now when I go to record no matter the settings the sample volume is so low and faint… I can hear is slightly but that’s it… my in/outs are set at their highest setting… the tape recorder works perfect and I can import samples from the tape to mlr and the play at the right volume… It’s only happening with live input to mlr…

heve you tried reset, restart?

Yes I did… and same thing is happening…