20 char of ouch almost 2k :frowning:

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Does anyone know if the artwork on these old models is screenprinted or maybe decals under the finish?

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Screen printed I believe.

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Phenomenal thread - so happy you’re all here!
It took me about 2 weeks, but I’ve read every non-DIY post and I’ve learned a ton. Actually, I read a lot of the DIY posts, but until I get into it myself, it’s too much for my brain :crazy_face:

I’m anxiously awaiting the arrival of my first CL purchase - a PB and Coco and I’m trying to get all of my ducks in a row so that I’m ready to fly when they get here. I’ve ordered a ton of bananas, (2) 1/8” stereo to 1/4” mono Y cables, and several 1/8” stereo cables. I need to get a mixer with more channels and I’m trying to make sure that I’ve got enough stereo channels and an effects loop for my stereo reverb to potentially use on any instrument that’s running through the mixer.

I just have a very less than basic understanding of mixers. I’ve used an effects loop on mixers before, but never in stereo. Every mixer that I’ve looked at has 2, 1/4” mono for returns (to make a stereo return), but only one jack for send. I haven’t been able to figure out whether it’s a stereo or mono send. I’ve heard other people mention that you can use up one of the mixers stereo channel for, wait a minutes, was that the return or the send? Now I’m even more confused…

Is anyone using an effects loop in stereo for their CL gear or is everyone just running effects in-line? Any help, leads, or links to read would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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There’s no single right answer for this because it’ll depend on what you want to do. Assuming you want to treat the PB and Coco as two stereo instruments with separate mixer sends to the reverb, the minimum you would need is two stereo or four mono inputs to the mixer, one mono effects send, and a stereo return via aux return or additional input channel.

Effects sends on a hardware mixer are usually mono, because most effects are mono input. But my digital reverb has a stereo input, you say. Yes but it is (99.9% of the time) summing the input to mono before it processes the sound and then outputting the stereo reverb mixed with the stereo input via the wet/dry or mix controls. Since you will control the dry signal level with the mixer and set your reverb unit to 100% wet, you only need a mono send to the reverb and a stereo return to the mixer.

You could use up one stereo or two mono input channels instead of an aux return for your reverb IF you want to EQ your reverb signal, overdrive it with the preamps, or send it to moar fx (like the Cocoquantus). Otherwise your reverb will just go straight to the mix unprocessed. That’s pretty standard but hey, this is CL talk.

Now, I find the CL stereo output scheme extremely annoying for my way of working. I don’t want things hard panned all the time, and I don’t want the various sounds generated to be pre-mixed before they get to the mixer. I usually have Coco returned to two mono channels so I can process the two cocos separately, or take the banana outs into other banana devices. With PB, I use the 1/8" output in conjunction with the individual banana outputs sent through a format converter to get them to 1/4" and into their own mixer channels or into some other synthesizer/filter/etc. Sometimes I even use 1/8" stereo to 1/4" mono passive mixing cables so my PB or Sidrax stereo out comes out in mono and only takes up one mixer channel. Note that not all PB generators have an individual output.

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@GrantB that was extremely helpful. Thank you!
If I go the standard route of mono send to my reverb and then stereo return, will that retain the CL hard panning? I get what you’re saying that a vast majority of effects are going to sum anyway, but I was just curious if when it is output in stereo, does that honor the stereo panning that went into the pedal?

It might help to take some time to conceptualize what the reverb is doing. It is simulating the sound reflections of an indoor space. Imagine you are standing in a room. You clap your hands (mono input). The sound bounces off the walls all around and then arrives at your left and right ears with different timing cues for each (stereo output), allowing you to hear the space.
If you send a PB into a stereo channel on the mixer and turn up its fader, you will hear the hard panned sound: one gongue on each side, AVdogs warbling between left and right, and so on. Then if you turn up the fx send for that channel, it will send a mono mix of the left and right PB channels to the reverb. What returns from the 100% wet reverb is the room simulation only, in stereo, but the stereo image is created from all the PB sounds mixed together as if they were coming from one point in the room like our clap. Then the stereo mix of the dry PB and the stereo room simulation are mixed together so what you’re hearing is all stereo in the end.
So that’s… ok… to get started. But you are limited in how you can control your mix by the mixer on the PB and the attendant predetermined panning. What if you want a gongue loud and dry right in the center of the speakers and the AVdog washed out in lush reverb in the background? This is where you get into having to split out the sounds and use more mixer channels.
Having said that, there is a unique philosophy to how these instruments are designed. They will force you to relinquish control, listen, adapt, explore, embrace, play and be played. The quirks and limitations are intentional and desirable. A PB, CQ, reverb, small mixer and plenty of cables is a universe on your desktop! In the end you will have to play the instruments for a good while before you understand what mixer you need for where you want to go next. It could be a portable recorder, or a Serge, or a multichannel interface, or a big desk with six sends, or no mixer at all.