#47

Maybe tangentially related… I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that the Essenes were using psychedelic ergot… Could be nonsensical, but it does feel possible intuitively…

Just found these examples of this theory:

https://www.gaia.com/article/dead-sea-scrolls-conspiracy

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2008/09/jesus-christ-magic-mushroom-part-2.html?m=1

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#48

A highly difficult topic to elaborate on with it also being so close to heart but i shall have a go…valuable insights from reading others own relation to this culture of the invisible/subtle.

Paradoxically, what I (Ha) am contemplating, is that which is occult or mystical in music, is in some ways the intersection of an otherness or something beyond a human reference point coming into its creation & eventually coming forth out from its aesthetic appreciation.

As I feel compelled to delve more into this labyrinth of a mystical culture(India) I was born into, a recent discovery for me was this concept of Rasa which is well worth having a read for anyone involved in the arts. (pronounced like rust but without the T)

Beyond human can mean an infinite variety of things. On a grounded level one only has to observe nature(the deeper one goes perhaps the more alien?) for inspiration like how the sound of wind blowing through the trees or on ones earlobes can evoke some feeling of a secret music/language. Or perhaps the gut wrenching sound of the earth tearing itself open(never experienced only imagined for me). This can enter into the divine territories of gods goddesses, spirits, cosmic, demonic and destructive energies. A point to note is it may prove beneficial to think outside the dualities of good/evil/right/wrong to appreciate the depth of this.

As for how this is linked into modular music creation, at least I feel like I have found a very direct and near instant feedback path for this otherness to manifest, as you are able and encouraged to push a patch to a point beyond your ability to grasp exactly how this may be occurring.

Yet I find it ends up sounding somewhat flat without the human element being involved to “tell/create the story/myth” and to listen to it and appreciate its unique essence thereafter, which is where that intersection of individual persona and otherness comes to play.

I did also write a somewhat more sound machine oriented post in that ghost in the machine thread if anyone is interested.

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#49

The faces-tree on the left is a modular synth. The two-headed man-woman is you. The snakes are patch cables. The goblet is your cable-holder. The moon is your studio and the bird is your synth cat. The crown is your genius and the wings are the means by which you exercise your genius.

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#50

There are at least five good song titles in this.

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#51

amon tobin has them spoken for

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#52

were you thinking of using Odin and the bathwater?

#53

Just following on, as to what Norse heathenry (and perhaps all of paganism) seems more to be about, I’d recommend some videos by Arith Härger (links below)

Härger explains difficult but core concepts such as megin, hamingja, and wyrd extremely well, and the reason also I’d start with those concepts (rather than gods and festivals as everyone does) is that they require a complete overturning of some of our most basic modern conceptions of the self, power, agency, fate, destiny, personhood divinity, relations with ancestors, and so on. Something is very much lost in translation when we simply take megin as “power”, hamingja as “luck”, wyrd as “fate”, fylgja as “spirit animal”, seidr as “magic” and so on.

Nonetheless, the beauty in all of this is that these more primordial notions have been there all along in our most basic language (megin->“might”, for instance). they lie dormant and perhaps need only be reawakened, and that this reawakening can take many forms, not just a literal repetition of old customs. [There’s plenty of food for thought in terms of how these concepts can influence new approaches to modular synthesis, for instance.] At the same time, there’s a necessity to the old customs as well, as proper “thinking” must go beyond mere conceptualization and involve the whole person if not a whole community – mere conceptual understanding likely only scratches the surface. Nonetheless, the implicit overturning of modern concepts is a good start – as an initial way of access and more deeply an appreciation of what’s at stake in the threat of modernity. Indeed, that the concepts of old Norse spirituality are understandable at all to the modern sensibility gives hope that all may not be lost, that the self-uprooting of the Western tradition may not be as “final” as it may seem.

Anyway I’d recommend these videos.

Megin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQu2TGLBRWo
Hamingja https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24YCU_aL8XM
Wyrd/Orlog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFJ2UVmpRmM
Parts of the self https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP8MSLQjRc
Animism (in general) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_f_KezSMog

[and also – perhaps to really understand megin and how it differs from the modern conception of power; i.e. the “will to power” of Nietzsche nor the “power relations” described by Foucault – the much broader relationship between animism and general (positive-sum) economies must be considered. some resources on this]:

What else – Daniel McCoy’s site is also a good resource, his explanations are not as deep as Härgers, but nonetheless seem equally on point. Of course I assume that’s because he wants you to buy his books :wink: https://norse-mythology.org/

Finally, a recommended list of sources (books), I still have yet to go through most of these: https://myrkrvidr.com/resources/

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#54

also in relation – fascinating 2014 Ph.D. thesis by Markus Altena Davidsen, primarily on influence of Tolkien on these and similar groups: https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/handle/1887/29078

covers a number of related developments, mostly from the early 80’s and before

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#55

Indeed, with any reconstructionist religion it’s important to have a good sense of the cultural context, and a solid grasp on the important concepts that don’t have a direct translation. Just as it’s important not to reduce the mythology to a simplified “X, God of Y was the son of Z, Goddess of W, and he likes beer and red things” level. :slightly_smiling_face:

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#56

jumping on this tangent, there are a good number of books/articles on [insert ancient spiritual practice here] being secretly influenced by [insert author’s favorite entheogen here]. i used to read quite a few of these and, while psychoative plants and fungi were probably used in some cases, most of the time it’s hard to know exactly what was going on where. i’ve seen three or four arguments that each compellingly assert a different sacrament in use for the rites of eleusis when at this point we really can’t know exactly what was going on with certainty. some more modern traditions are a bit more blatant in terms of what is actually being used - for example, the artwork in some catholic churches in the region of mexico where peyote has been used traditionally have things that look a heck of a lot like peyote buttons in their frescoes and other artwork.

that said, a whole lot of weird stuff can also occur when you routinely practice certain breathing exercises, visualizations, meditations, fasting, hard exercise, sensory deprivation, and so on, which may account for much of what is reported in the old texts. there are also good arguments for some reported phenomena being the result of neuro-atypical conditions including schizophrenia, mania, and synesthesia. what do we call someone who thinks that god is talking to them through the radio today? what did we call someone who thought that god was talking to them 4000 years ago?

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#57

I began to write something that got extremely long, so here are some bullets:

  • Started out young with ‘weird’ experiences including an OBE and color-emotion synesthesia
  • Bought a Thoth tarot deck at age 15 and decided to understand it (which I am still working on)
  • Found Robert Anton Wilson due to the great cover art on the Schrödigner’s Cat trilogy
  • Prometheus Rising and Cosmic Trigger led me to Crowley, Regardie, and Leary
  • Leary-inspired college hijinks
  • Crowley’s A.A. student reading list led me to Vivekananda, Patanjali, Raja Yoga, Taoism, etc
  • Solo Golden Dawn + OTO practice for a few years with some interesting results
  • Fell off for a little while due to life intervening
  • Was inspired to attend Robert Anton Wilson’s memorial and reconnected with that spark
  • Got back into yoga and began studying Chaos magic writers, especially Phil Hine
  • Various encounters with the American burner mystical culture
  • Yoga teacher training and intro to Tibetan Buddhist meditation techniques
  • Taoist wuji, qigong and taijiquan play for a couple months at a Taoist temple in China
  • Tibetan Buddhist study for a couple months at a monastery in Nepal

Currently, I am continuing to deep dive into Tibetan Buddhism. The thing I like about it is that they have been extremely EXTREMELY methodical for a couple thousand years. They have tried everything you can think of and then some, and have documented how it’s worked out. I resonate with their philosophy in the abstract (four noble truths, six perfections, etc) but do find some of their specific beliefs to be problematic, especially with regard to gender and sex, so am not 100% bought in. That said, their systematic approach to exploring and documenting inner spaces may be unparalleled.

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#58

True, but there are living religions that use entheogens that we don’t need to guess about.

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#59

Can you say more about this?

#60

Where we don’t know what’s going on, it’s best not to speculate. Especially about things like schizophrenia or mind-altering drugs. Not everybody who talks to gods is, not to put too fine a point on it, out of their minds.

Intense religious experiences are something that one is primed for – but my personal experience says that study, world view, beliefs, ritual, group bonding, and imagination are sufficient.

I’ve read books by chaos magicians suggesting a drug trip as a rapid shortcut. I’ve also read warnings against that by others. I can see some sense in either approach and I think it just depends on the person.

The group I was part of required you to be clean, sober, and in a good emotional state to participate in anything, and it worked for us.

…

I think some people assume there’s a whole IMAX 3D extravaganza to religious/mystic/occult experiences, but it tends to be a lot more subtle. Though sometimes startling or unsettling, and occasionally pretty hilarious.

Outside of a ritual context, there is not one experience I can name that a skeptic couldn’t easily dismiss as coincidence. Some of those had pretty deep emotional resonance regardless. But I think the gods love plausible deniability :wink:

(I won’t speak of experiences inside of ritual context.)

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#61

I may have already said too much? :wink: (sincerely, there are reasons for the esoteric to remain so)

But look into ayahuasca if you want to learn about some of the more well known instances. Uniao de Vegetal is the most well established ayahuasca religion.
http://udv.org.br/en/
But it is just an example, not an endorsement. You may find the Christianity off-putting if you are expecting an indigenous purity of some kind. There are less well known and more traditional practitioners but you may need to travel to Peru to learn more.

And then there are all the far more esoteric eddies to wade into.

I personally prefer to maintain a tension between an autonomous form of exploration and learning, and that of seeking guidance from my elders. I neither want to get locked inside or outside of myself. I feel there are unique things my person has to offer, and that I am also limited and can always learn from others. So far this has made most religions a poor fit for me, but I’ve had some exceptional experiences here and there. Just never enough to make me say “I am a religious person” (not since childhood anyway). But I don’t rule out the possibility I might say something different in the future.

Edit: I will say that decades of a wide variety of psychedelic experiences have taught me that sleep deprivation combined with intense repetitive activity such as dancing to a beat, is the most psychedelic thing I’ve ever done with or without “drugs”.

Dancing in stone dance (a gentler off-shoot from sun dance) is probably the longest conversation I’ve ever had directly with Creator. 24 hours of dancing (no piercing as in sun dance). I was completely sober.

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#62

I sometimes make an appearance with the band Forktail, which explores themes of paganism and folk horror. See the track ‘The Wake’ as an example:

I use a Buchla Easel and Cocoquantus. I’m often reminded of the Arthur C Clarke quote:

‘Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic’.

Patching the quantussy circuit definitely falls squarely into this realm.

#63

Hey man, I work in the group NOKO210. Our next podcast is about sigils and especially sound sigils and data sonification re ritual. I think you might find it interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1t0HBSfsqKtG13D-s1zi6g
this is the link to the ist 3 pods.
there are links from this page to some of Barry William Hale’s 2d art as well.
Our Bandcamp page has some tracks up that u can play for free a couple of times also.
the music includes alot of data sonification from the Enochian tablets etc.
sequencing is often ChucK coding feeding into hardware.BWH performs ritual and vocals.

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#64

the concept of “barzakh” i come back to a lot in my artistic practices (modular, and otherwise). in lay terms it translates from arabic to isthmus, and in Islam it’s used to refer to the place where souls reside awaiting judgement day (between earth & heaven or between heaven and hell, similar to She’ol or limbo). Its about the idea of barriers and separations and the ways in which any two things in the world are separated by a barrier. The space between any two things is a third which separates them. It doesn’t exist outside of that interaction, it is intrinsic and identical to both of the things it separates, but it is neither of them.

In sufism this became an idea similar to Nietzsche’s idea of an ubermensch – a barzakh could be personified as someone who is a conduit between God and the world. There have been a few barzakh’s throughout history who were all prophets. A person could enter a state of betweenness by entering a dream state through prayer, sleep, or mental difference (what is now medicalized as schizophrenia or developmental disabilities have been thought of as signs of divinity in Islam throughout most of its history). i don’t want to ramble too long but this metaphysical way of conceiving of the interaction between things (with other people, with the divine, etc) i find really appealing.

art as both a conduit and a barrier between artist and audience, art as both a conduit and a barrier between artist and the divine (which i think is a completely valid form of artistic expression which relates what was said above about music becoming a private act and not necessarily the mode of community building it is sometimes foregrounded as). i think even the simplistic slice of this idea that says that something that is a barrier is also a conduit, where both sides of a coin are unreconcilable opposites and yet are one, is useful

a bit rambly and more metaphysical and esoteric than occult, but maybe interesting

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#65

the great Z’ev (rest in peace) has given the world an awesome tool in the form of Rhythmajik, a method for parsing rhythms into meaningful phrases articulated to perform specific tasks. i used this method in my (now sleeping) project Eggregora, every liveset was opened by parsing an “ouvre barrié” Papa Leghba invocation and was ended by closing the gate. additional parsing was performed inside the performance for specific tasks. the ritual belonged to no specific tradition but freely sampled from above mentioned Z’ev work, from the work of Michael Bertiaux\Ordo Templi Orientis Antiqua\La Couleuvre Noire and from the work of Kenneth Grant\Typhonian OTO.
this is the only properly released track by Eggregora,as found in the eleventh benefit compilation to support The Hermetic Library:

another thing worth mentioning is that i used for a couple of years the Harvestman Tyme Sefari mk2 + A Sound Of Thunder as a scrying tool in conjunction with a DIY black mirror.
i have compiled an album aptly titled “Music for Scrying”, i’d like to release it sooner or later if i find a viable label.

worth mentioning also the work of Martin Howse, in particular the ERD modular series and, most of all, the Dark Interpreter series.

EDIT: patch notes for the Eggregora track above:
meditation on the doo spirits.
bansuri: tones, micro overtones and percussion
found animal bones instruments: percussion, textures
modular system: delay, pitch shifting
daw: recording, editing, spatialization

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#66

I guess it is a tool for coming up with ideas that are novel to the ruminator but, honestly folks; you’re grown-ups.
Hard sciences and the process of true discovery as to how the world and physics actually work is what allows airplanes to fly and modulars to function. Candles and wish-thinking are conceits and don’t yield much to which one can point.
They can be useful for focusing attention and providing a path but, um… you’re selling yourselves something.

The American extreme cultural phenomenon of extreme allowance in ‘letting you do your own thang’ (a.k.a. “you do you” and other terrible clichés) has led to the nation being the birthplace of more religions in the past 100 years than anywhere on earth and at any time as well allowing for complete nonsense to not be ridiculed. This American (and somewhat more broadly North American) cultural artifact has led us to being in the pool of nonsense and culture clashes that we are mired in.

The real world and cosmos are fantastic enough as they are. We hardly need to import magical nonsense and unproven & untestable revealed wisdoms into this. I know that it is ingrained into the minds of some persons (false positives, pattern seeking, etc. are a part of us) but leaving this kind of childish nonsense unchecked is detrimental to society at large.
Let’s place all of this bunkum in the same bin as alchemy and move forward with the real discoveries that await.

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