I think it’s a strange logic to use another module to overcome a design quirk :slight_smile:
Changing octaves of the grains gives nice musical effect and it’s natural to want to use that knob for performance, while sweeping through whole chromatic range in between does not suit all kinds of music.

You could say the same about a VCO.

If you have a goal that goes beyond the design vision for a particular module, using another module to achieve it isn’t strange logic at all. I’d say it is precisely the point of having a modular synth. No one piece has to do everything. The interactions between modules are what make it YOUR instrument. Going outside the vision of the designer is something that is encouraged in a modular synth - that’s the beauty of it, no?

Practically speaking, a “detent” for green 1/1 would add a dead spot in the control, making full smooth sweeps impossible. There is nothing inherently superior about “Green” over other positions on the knob. For melodic pitch sequencing with repeatable, instant results, we added the vsop options. I hope none of this is a “deal breaker.” There are theoretical and practical reasons the module works the way it does.

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In theory yes, in terms of interfacing with a module i would disagree. It is an understandable starting point and all other points are derivatives of that :slight_smile: Not going to argue or complain as i’m fine with MG as is.

Btw, manual is missing descriptions of colors for the varispeed knob, would be nice to know them actually.

I get the same feeling trying to get MG in green as i do threading a needle.

If you set it to Quantized can’t it at least be increased there? I would love to use MG with 1v scaling but find it almost impossible to set up and keep it that way.

the being sid im exited to try out new gain staging as that seams like a huge improvement…thanks

It’s there, page 21 of the manual!

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I’m having a bit of trouble with the math involved in deriving the values for morph when less than one. Has anyone worked these out already (or a formula).

Sorry for my paltry maths :frowning:

Not a Morphagene owner… but…

Pick 2 notes on a keyboard, say middle C, and the A below it, then figure out their frequencies1 (this interval is the one you want to replicate):

  • Middle C: 261.63 Hz
  • A below: 220 Hz

Divide the small number by the big number: 220 / 261.63 = 0.84088216

Similarly, divide the big number by the smaller number to get the ratio going up.

1: you should be able to search the internet for a table

edit: fixed a maths typo

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There are more colours on the module

Thanks - as silly as it sounds (or is), it was that it was a comparison of frequencies that I was missing. I was thinking I needed to explore something non linear without considering that this would already be accounted for.

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The table provided in the options.txt gives you all the 12-TET ratios, and you can shift them by octaves by dividing or multiplying by powers of two.

For example 1.0 is unison, 0.5 is an octave down, 2.0 is an octave up, 4.0 is two octaves up.

1.49830 is a fifth. 0.74915 is a fifth minus an octave (in other words down a fourth), 2.99660 is octave plus fifth.

Additionally, if you’re into just intonation (I am :slight_smile: ) then you can easily convert just ratios to decimal with a calculator. A just perfect fifth, 3/2 = 1.5 (0.75 and 3.0 to shift up and down octaves).

The Morphagene will conveniently change the number you type to the correct number of decimal places (you can write 1.5 instead of 1.50000, for example).

The four-octave range in either direction is much larger than previously available on the Morphagene, even before you account for the additional frequency offset from the Vari-Speed control. Particularly in the upward category: with Vari-Speed all the way up you can create Genes that are six octaves higher than the original recording, and have them playing alongside Genes of functionally any other pitch.

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So, let me first say, I’m a huge MN fan, I have enough of your modules to make a Shared System almost. Lol. I’m late to the game on Morphagene, I owned a Nebulae and was borrowing a Clouds for am extended period of time first. I like Morphagene better than both for my purposes.

So, I understand the philosophy you are stating here about the pitch knob, but I think it definitely its rooted in using more un-pitched sound sources, towards a musique concrete based approach. I don’t think a defined root is really necessary for that.

The way I use the Morphagene quite often is to build a bed of SOS loops for ambience, from the VCOs in my rack, then use the grains to further tweak. If I accidentally bump the pitch knob it can send the whole thing a semi-tone up or down, and its really frustrating as moving the root up to a C# for example is not usually the desired effect I’m going for for.

Also, I think you said something above in the thread where you used the tape transport analogy. All the tape machines I’ve used with varispeed, which have been pro-level 8-24 track machines, always have had the ability to get back to the base pitch very easily.

Also, I think its interesting how these new morph pitch options have such a precise level of being able to define internals in the most mathematical of ways but yet the most fundamental of the starting point at green is super loosey goosey.

I would think that having a button command to lock the pitch would be excellent. Or, have a text file option that gives you the ability to define your master pitch snaps like you have done with the Morph knob.

Just some ideas for a future release if that’s possible.

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Off topic, but any possibility for just tuning in a Rene 2 firmware update?

Thanks for your reply.

For context, when the Morphagene was first released we did not expect that it would ever be very well suited for sequenced/played pitches. I’m gonna quote Tony from a different forum thread around the time it was announced (NAMM 2017):

Folks, the Morphagene was not designed to operate as a keyboard sampler. It is not a modular version of an Akai S1000.
It will NOT track 1V/ Octave and there is a big reason for that… EXTENDED RANGE in the lower octaves of Vari-Speed.
Having the increased and extended range at the lower speeds creates far more interesting sounds then would be possible using the exponential scale required of the 1V/ Octave standard.
We want to have the feel of vari-speed approach that of manipulating tape speed, NOT playing western melodies on a keyboard (we make the STO, DPO and telharmonic for that).
It is a module designed to explore Microsound.

Despite this, by spring 2018 we had done a lot of work to force the Morphagene to also operate as a sequenced-pitch instrument: improving the repeatability of sequencing Vari-Speed, adding the vsop options for reliable sequencing with quantized voltage, etc. and we made that available with the mg155 update.

This was “supposed to be” the last update, but in 2019 Tom found some ways to improve the audio i/o, and we wanted to change the gain setting method to be like the way it is done on Mimeophon, which people clearly prefer. To make this a more exciting update we decided to add a new feature as well in the form of morph chord ratios, and after a LOT of work it is finally ready to be out in the field.

The tape machine metaphor can’t, of course, be all-encompassing. This is still, at its core, a collection of computer code on a dedicated platform. It’s not intended to be a tape machine, but the tape metaphor provides a useful intuitive sense of how certain elements of it should feel to play, as a device whose primary purpose is the manipulation and morphing of sound rather than “unaffected” playback. Ultimately the reality of the instrument grows out of the meeting, over time and experience, of what sounds good in theory and what feels good and is fun to use in practice. Metaphors help us ground initial understanding but something like the Morphagene doesn’t really have a mechanical counterpart.

I can’t promise that a “green-favoring” option will come in the future, so again I hope that none of this is a dealbreaker. I can promise you that we do hear feedback like this, and we do, during development, try many many things and take design decisions seriously.

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Unfortunately the René’s outputs don’t have fine enough resolution, even pre-quantization, to provide the kind of precision that would be needed for accurate just-intonation on 1v/oct analog CV inputs.

Just intonation also demands a minimum of phase beating that 12-TET thankfully does not care much about, so it must be even more precise in order for listeners to perceive it as “in-tune.”

In my opinion, the best way to do just intonation with analog inputs is with an analog sequencer. I have done three-voice JI using Pressure Points many times. I can dial each note in to exactly where I want it, without having to worry about calibration discrepancies in the VCO or the quantizer.

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Are there any resources to get more info about the varispeed window colors beyond what’s available in the manual?

i feel it’s a perennial reminder that replay at the same pitch as the recording is just one of great many possibilities, arguably less interesting than the vast non-green range :slight_smile:
yea, rationalising AF, it is what it is. . . . . . . …

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Awesome. Thanks for this. Again, just shows how rad you guys are. All makes total sense. Love the open dialog. Happy to be a part of it. I love this community. Having this much passion around the instruments and music making is quite inspiring.

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I’m wondering if any Morphagene owners could help me out with a question…

There are three CVable controls that don’t have attenuverters, SoS, organise, and morph. For those controls, when you connect a CV to the input, is the CV value summed with the knob position, or does the knob attenuate the CV value?

SoS definitely attenuates, other two I’m not sure, but they seem to add

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Record a note into MG and then watch the output with a tuner as you change varispeed?