#21

the touch tracking algorithm is quite heavy, and its also shifting a lot of data over USB (so high IO overhead in a high prio thread) … but its not something Ive had issues with.
but… Ive got it working on a Beaglebone Black - so its not that bad :wink:

I think the only thing has been a few pictures Randy showed of a ‘prototype’ (?) which appeared to have a curved surface (?) - Id guess (and its that) it’ll be similar size or bigger perhaps, but its speculation. Id not hold your breath, Randy is really busy with VSTs too, and also the soundplane touch tracking software has been promised a big improvement, some mention of a ‘soundplane CV box’ … so seems like alot of things on the madrona labs plate.

#22

Have you seen the new thing from Roli, blocks? Small MPE pad. All the preview vids show it in use with iOS but with a USB MIDI host it’s not necessary to use an iDevice, there are vids of people hooking it up to modular etc. Looks like very expressive control in a very small package. Seems like around $200, should be out early next year.



#23

Seems so

Interesting side note my older brother just sent me and my niece a link about it since he saw em on the apple store site

#24

oops, I scanned the thread but assumed he was talking about that 25-key rise version.

1 Like
#25

The Linnstrument is a great instrument to play the few software plugins that support high data rates. Bazille is very fun, as is Omnisphere set up with an 8-voice patch. And Roger Linn is a serious inventor/owner that will be around for the long haul.

My experiences with the Linnstrument and Eurorack were not as pleasant. I think most of my issues stemmed from modules not being able to handle the data rate, as well as the lack of a polyphonic path in my setup.

#26

I was mainly talking about my computer struggling with the software max/ableton&aalto side of things I was using a 6 or 7 year old white macbook at the time

If the soundplane were available I would get one again for sure they just feel right as someone who went from piano to bass guitar

#27

not exactly what you’re talking about, but these may solve the speed issue you’re discussing:
https://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/boppad/

i ordered one of these a while back through the kickstarter, i’ll let you know how it goes once it arrives.

#28

I’ll definitely be getting one of those (post-kickstarter) for sure, but mainly for drum playing. The KMI stuff in particularly really suffers from that ‘shitty MPE’ sound/feel, due to their thick silicone + fabric sensor stuff.

I’m sure it will make a great percussive pad though!

#29

I asked about this for the K-board Pro 4, and they are saying the 8th generation smart fabrics (bop pad/kbp) are better…
… of course we wont know till they get released, but the KBP4 is going to be pretty bad, if they dont get the feel right, and at RRP of $599 thats going to upset a lot of people.
(Ive backed the KBP4, but honestly Im thinking of cancelling it, as the ‘assurances’ given by KMI are not very convincing so far)

#30

In seeing the demo vid they had on the kickstarter, it sounds bad. Mainly the ‘regular’ keyboard stuff sounds awkward and flammy, in the way that a pianist paying on a rigid surface would.

It’s kind of tangential, but I think all the faux-keyboard controllers (Rise/KBP4) really miss the point in that they appear to be worst-of-both-worlds instead of best-of. The non-piano-esque interfaces (continuum/soundplane) make a better stab it, but that’s neither here or there.

3 Likes
#31

I wonder if these tools are using the wrong metaphors for physical interaction? Pianos just don’t have 5 dimensions of expression. It feels pretty natural for a guitar. The Linnstrument seems to try to be more guitar-like, but the ergonomics are a bit odd. I guess not too dissimilar from a lap steel.

Point is, maybe we instrument designers (or armchair instrument designers, as the case may be) should be looking harder at prior art in expressive instruments, beyond the obvious choices.

2 Likes
#32

Doing poly with Eurorack is tricky and expensive in the first place. However I’ve had no problem using the Linnstrument in mono mode with the µMIDI to control an Atlantis or Shapeshifter. Plus if it doesn’t work well, I can always fix it since I wrote the µMIDI firmware :slight_smile:

1 Like
#33

This is where the Eigenharp really shined. It made use of existing instrument designs and playing techniques. Once you got used to the keys and how to set the instrument up, it really was quite natural to play.

I owned all three models at one point, but sold at a point where it seemed clear to me the there was no way forward for the company itself.

Too bad, too.

1 Like
#34

Exactly!

I think it seems like an easy ‘gimme’ in that, “hey look, it’s a keyboard, but with some extra shit!”. But that doesn’t pan out.

There’s something to be said for repurposes/recycling existing virtuosity/modalities, but I don’t think that happens through imitation.

#35

I’m curious about that. I wonder if a more affordable eigenharp could ever be made. I think that’s one place where Roger Linn really nails it: he works hard to keep his instruments affordable (to the degree possible given his constraints).

#36

@Rodrigo , you mention the ‘shitty MPE’ sound, couple of times … care to elaborate on this?

I do think some controllers/sound engine have an issue with resolution/smoothing , where you can get jittery steps occurring, partly due to midi resolution and data rates.
(for me Aalto sounds much better with both soundplane and eigenarp when using OSC, I think due to this)

I’ve think synth engines for expressive controllers have a long way to go… the continuums Eagen Matrix is (imo) the best by far, as it really takes expression to heart of the preset, its not just a bolt on.

#37

Heh, yeah.

It’s not something I’ve put a huge amount of thinking into (prior to this new hunt for some kind of continuous surface), but I know I’ve heard the sound on more or less every MPE-y type instrument that’s aftertouch-based.

I think it has to do with having a very high threshold, coupled with likely static smoothing, which generates an aftertouch curve that jumps from 0-60 (metaphorically) very quickly. So like a ‘stabbing’ sound, instead of having any detail/nuance to the ‘onset’ of the gesture.

Beyond that, there’s MIDI’s generally shitty resolution, so without good/dynamic dsp smoothing, that part sounds like shit too, but when I’m referring to the ‘shitty MPE’ sound, I typically mean that stabby/sudden jumping of values from nothing to a med/high value.

2 Likes
#38

Neither the LinnStrument nor the Roli stuff is aftertouch based with “thresholds” - (though the LinnStrument can certainly be configured to emulate aftertouch). But a lot of patches do make use of attack envelopes and take into account velocity. I quite enjoy playing patches where I effectively have no envelope and it’s all just pressure - and it’s smooth on my LinnStrument and I’d expect the same from the Seaboards.

#39

I don’t mean on a user-configurable level. I mean the underlying ADC conversion. Just like how all MIDI pots have ‘dead spots’ on their extremes (in some cases, quite large ones). So that pressing the key/pad/surface lightly doesn’t even register, and it’s only when you press passed a certain point will the threshold be exceeded, which then gives you a relatively high value of where your pressure currently is.

Not having spent any time on the Linnstrument/Roli I can’t comment on their feel, this is mainly based on the Quneo-style controllers, where that mushy feel is definitely part of it.

#40

I would say that my experience with a Roli Seaboard Grand does not fit with your description. Feather light touches were registered accurately as well as heavy pressure or harsh stabs. It was really quite dynamic.

So it can be done. But the mushy gel stuff doesn’t work well for traditional piano hand position/technique. Which calls into question the piano metaphor all over again.

Edit: And yes, the Quneo has terrible sensitivity. It’s good for finger drumming, I wouldn’t use it for subtle expression.