#74

I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the two! If you can post any side-by-side comparisons of the two being switched between in the same patch that would be awesome. (also those orange knobs look excellent on the d0 faceplate!)

#75

ufff! good thing I had to do some work so still haven’t turned it on…
Thanks for the save @kilchhofer

#76

Welp, can’t get a sound out of this thing… Sound passes thru, If I move the input bias on A around I can see it inverting the signal on my ES8 input, but no delay whatsoever is happening.
I tried @kilchhofer starting feedback diagram to no avail. Anyone had this problem?

Update: I tried moving the delay offset around and it created a latency on the arrival of my signal to the ES-8 but still no actual delay. I’m still hoping this is me being a noob and not that something broke the module while on the delivery.

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#77

Adding latency to your sound source is the delay, you just need to mix your dry signal in with the delayed signal from the d0 to turn that delayed signal into an “echo”.

Mult your sound source and send one copy straight to your mixer, and the other to your d0. Then just send the d0’s output to the mixer as well. The d0 is more reliant on the rest of your system than other delays because of this (unless you use the A into B internal feedback patch), but it will get you visualizing your signal paths in a way that will really help you out in figuring out other creative patching methods.

Also, I think maybe all these d0 specific posts should be moved to the Mungo Modules thread since they aren’t specifically related to physical modeling, and could be helpful to other people that will likely land there if they’re seeking information on Mungo stuff.

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#78

you have no feedback, please have a look again at my picture:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3043786#3043786
this is with internal feedback, it’s easy and fast to setup a delay this way, look at how the signal flows, it goes into input B, from output B then back into input A (with sum button pushed) and the out from channel A. cheers, i think further discussions should be moved to mungo thread as @smbols already said, maybe someone could move these last d0 posts over there?

#79

(to keep Hardware Physical Modelling on topic, discussion about troubleshooting the d0 has been moved here)

3 Likes
#80

After understanding the fact that I have to patch the feedback path outside of the module, I got it to work perfectly as a normal delay unit. I still have doubts as to what the modulation knobs do the signal.

I got some karplus strong going but that part didn’t went smoothly at all.
I excited the delay with a -5v signal+noise going through a VCA with a short envelope into the B input, I patched it like @kilchhofer diagram but I ran the feedback through the LP of a Three Sisters before patching it on A again, but the results weren’t very encouraging.
The filtering helped to get some shaping on the sound change pitch and avoid high pitched noise but
I couldn’t get any sustain going on the signal without it being a feedback mess, I couldn’t tune the delay as to work with v/8, the exciter sound was too present/loud while the delayed/synthesised one was too low.

Also, I tried syncing It as normal delay to a clock to no avail.

#81

Getting your slew setting just right might be the key to unlocking this one. For the physical modeling challenge, I am right there with you. No success beyond basic metallic Karplus. It seems like the “islands of stability” are very small. I now see the need for MIDI recall of knob positions…

#82

i’m sorry to hear that you have troubles with the d0.
have you tested the zoom, does it work like it should, do you understand how it works?
maybe look at the grayscale panel for the d0, it should be clear what each knob does:


the modulation knobs are bipolar attenuations for the incoming cv plus some gain, so you can scale the cv as precisely as possible. since they carry some gain it is recommended to zero them out if unpatched, eg zoom out, knob at 12 o’clock.
i don’t know how to help on the patches, i tried to explain my discoveries as good as i can but i realize that these modules can be difficult to understand and to “master”.
set the slew zoomed out to 11 o’clock. clock into the clock input and it syncs, there is no mystery to that. also for the fast and easy 1v/oct tracking you can use the clock input with a square wave which tracks 1v/oct.

feedback patching is always a delicate thing, feedback behaves chaotic and the sweet spots can be difficult to get but are very rewarding. these are not plug and play modules, not at all. i always think that mungo is the digital serge, the modules are very open in design and allow the user to patch different functions within the same module. a small knob movement can have drastic results.

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#83

Got part of it a couple of hours ago!
I’ve got a bucket load of questions but at least I got pretty real guitar or bass guitar out of it. I stuck a square wave on the tuning input, used some similar settings to @kilchhofer diagram on the delays and got it working through about 3 octaves in tune.
The trick for me was dialing the gain to just the right amount and controlling the shape of the exciter for various plucking shapes.
I still don’t understand very well what the Delay A Time at fast speed is doing to the sound because because on the B seems to affect the tuning and the A is only there for the feedback part, if I turn it really slow I only get a latency of the B, I put it fast enough to be in time, I as minimal to no effect on the sound.

4 things I’m lost still.

  • I don’t understand very well how to create sustain after exciting the delay, I get longer sounds with the gain higher but I can’t get to say a wind instrument like that.

  • I tried using a 3sisters LP between the feedback path and it just blew the sound out of proportions.

  • I get a lot of digital noise around 10k +, it’s easy to take it away with filtering and I can get some high end back by increasing the noise in the exciter but I just want to know if it’s normal.

  • I tried using cv into the modulation inputs of the delays for tuning but I couldn’t tune it at all, and for example, the higher cv I sent the lower it played and vice versa. I only got it to play upwards by inverting the signal on the input.

Well, at least it’s working for sure, thanks everyone, I hope the conversation switches more from panic to explorations from my part now :wink:

#84

this depends on how and what you want to patch. for a “classic” flute or wind instrument patch you have a sustained excitation, eg the noise you put into the delay/filter feedback is constant.
if you don’t want the exciter signal to be constant you can put the d0 into selfoscillation, so it has a constant tone, shape that tone with filter etc and control it’s envelope with a vca inside or outside the feedback path.

depending on what you put into your feedback path you need to adjust the feedback/gain knob, if your filter/waveshaper/freq shifter etc has a gain control too you have to decide which gain you put as “master feedback” control. also with filters…as soon as resonance is introduced the feedback can indeed get out of control quickly, resonance is nothing else than a feedback for the filter so this can blow up if you’re not careful. again, patience and small knob movements :slight_smile:

if you set the slew to high noise can be heard. set it to the point where the noise disappears. again, the cv inputs carry gain, this also can have a noisy effect if not zeroed out. and then obviously the power can have an effect on noise, you really need a stable +5v for the d0.

that’s normal, it is not an oscillator but a delay, and positive voltage changes the delay time down (think knob movement to the right, the delay gets longer, so for ks patches that means the pitch gets lower. that’s why the attenuverter are so handy, just invert the cv. the tuning to exact 1v/oct takes time and is really not fun, it is perfectly possible, believe me, the scaling is v/oct, it’s just alot of work.

1 Like
#85

I tried using sustain on the -5v+noise exciter signal but it basically killed my sound after the initial plucking, the other way worked but I found it slightly less natural.

When it comes to the feedback path, was it there that you felt instruo tanh helped you maintain certain settings without having it blown out of proportions? Also that explains why just the tiniest flick of resonance on 3s what exploding my ears…

#86

the dc offset mixed with noise i use mostly for plucked, eg not sustained sounds, drums or string like instruments. also i would use only a tiny tiny amount of excitation and set up the d0 almost at the point of self oscillation, then you can feel better what signal is needed.
an important thing to remember is this:
“Sum Button, adds channel A into channel B predelay.Holding zoom +/- while pressing this button enables a DCcut filter on the inputs.” (from the d0 manual)
so if dc cut is enabled then a dc offset on the input has no effect.
and this btw opens up a whole other world, the d0 can delay cv signals without problems…

for wind instruments i use the noise source either as filter input in the feedback path or even mixed in at the end. the tanh helps as a “safety” but usualy i get the sounds in want and then add the tanh to tame higher frequencies. i use mostly bandpass filters in the feedback so the intensity of the feedback is highly frequency dependant.
be aware that all mungo modules can work up to 20v peak to peak, that’s alot! setting up the filter(s) inside the feedback loop is a act/react with the filter settings (cutoff and resonance) and the feedback/gain knob on your d0 or mixer. it really is a delicate patching.

#87

that’s when you patch it with internal feedback right? eg with the sum button pressed?
this is really just a shortcut to get feedback, in this configuration you use channel a more like a mixer to send the feedback back into channel b, that’s why delay a has no delay effect, only channel b gets the feedback signal.
maybe try to set it up all with external feedback, like this for example with mia
(i used two mias here to show the two mix point, 1 for feedback, 2 for dry wet mixture but this can be done with the second channel on one mia)

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this shows delay on channel b, channel a is unused but can be patched exactly the same, the only difference is that you have the gain knob for the a input on the module.
you see that channel b on first mia now controls feedback amount. you need to mult the output of the d0 and the source signal to have a classic dry/wet delay with feedback.

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#88

have you gotten a chance to try out the CG delay yet? Would love to hear some thoughts on that one once you do!

1 Like
#89

i played around with g0 in feedbackloop with live input for granular pitch shifting delay and added the d0 into that loop so all in all 3 feedbackloops all feeding in each other. gets quite messy but it’s fun:)

5 Likes
#90

I fooled around with it in Superbooth, but haven’t got around to picking up mine yet due to still being in Berlin. Need to go to Copenhagen and grab it asap. I’ll make sure to post an opinion and make a couple of videos when I’m familiar with it. First impressions were good!
Chair audio had a haptic controller and they used the CG delay for Karplus-Strong, it sounded really nice. Also went by the CG Products booth.

1 Like
#91

What kind of drill do you need to get through these faceplates? I think I might see if I can get someone at my local makerspace to help me do this to my D0.

#92

I’m actually waiting for a Grayscale panel for my D0 before I give this a try.

#93

I hand-drilled the panel. Which was dumb since I work in a machine shop, but I was in a mood.

You’ll definitely want to make a pilot hole or dimple to keep the drill from walking. I drilled from the front to keep the deburr operation simple. I think the final diameter was about 0.25".

If you use power tools please take care with fixturing your workpiece since it can be very difficult to grip a thin panel, especially without scratching or bending the soft aluminum.

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