#230

I apologize if this topic seems like stirring the pot – that wasn’t my intent. I tried searching for posts here and didn’t find much, but maybe I just missed it. If this topic seems like it would create more heat than light, I am fine with it being removed.

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#231

Per Emilie in the Mutable forum:

You’re certainly not going to get any support from me if you have an issue with one of these lol
Simple rule: if it doesn’t look like the stuff shown on the Mutable Instruments website, it’s not legit. Cramped panels redesigned to fit 6 HP, weird fonts, non Rogan knobs = ewwww.

So, she’s obviously not into her modules being cloned, but at least has a sense of humor about it. That would be enough for me.

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#232

Regardless of the original author’s opinions, the modules are licensed as GPL3.0, MIT, and CC-BY-SA 3.0. From the software side, anyone is free to copy, modify, and redistribute the code; from the hardware side, you can share and adapt as long as you give credit and share any changes under the same terms.

Of course, you can say these are only the legal restrictions and you should also consider ethical concerns beyond simply what is permitted. In my opinion, this is open source hardware/software and those are the terms. You can add addition obligations on top of that if you want to, such as wanting to support the original developers—but that all comes down to your own beliefs and what sits right with you at the end of the day.

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#233

Usability concerns are much more tangible most of the time :slight_smile:

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#234

I don’t think this is “stirring the pot” as it’s an ongoing thing and of no small benefit to many eurorack users.

I also doubt that Emelie’s orig intention behind having open source designs was so many different little shops could copy them and give them a diff panel or diff size, but Peaks is out of production, still a useful module in my system, and if you wanted one (or one in a 1u size), going to one of these third party shops is how you do it. as she says tho, don’t go to Mutable for help when something doesn’t work (as Emelie had no production control over the hardware OR the software - I’m assuming you are running Dead Man’s Catch).

however her open source work has contributed to a LOT of modules that aren’t clones, and there have been some pretty cool (if complicating) developments to many of her modules.

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#235

My personal perspective on the matter is that:

in most cases it’s perfectly legal for people to take the modules and make clones, as long as they assolve all the formalities specified by the license. Not all people do it, or do it properly, but that’s another topic.

It should be noted that, among the original goals for open sourcing the designs, was to enable people to fix things themselves or make modifications, if they had the skill to, and to enable people to learn from the code and the schematics. In fact that has happened on many occasions, and there has been many examples of virtuos circles deriving from the open source license, as @baleen already pointed out below. There’s derivative modules that are really just clones and there’s many uses of the open sourced code/schamatics that took the concept further in some or many ways. Enabling people to mass-produce clones was of course not one of the goals. But again, they can legally do so.
For modules that are no longer being produced, having people still make them is good! That’s one of the great things about open source indeed. I don’t see how anybody would want to use Peaks over Stages, but that’s just me. Which is to say: you shouldn’t care, really! One of the beautiful things about modulars is that they are a very personal thing and there’s no right or wrong. Which btw. makes designing modules a big challenge! If somebody thinks Peaks is inspiring and keeps you in the flow, or just does what you need it do, with the least friction, then that’s the right module. If somebody likes their modules to be super compact, to the expense of fine control, than that’s also totally fine.

The ethical aspect is of course more complicated and I don’t really want to get into that now. But I’ll say that there is a whole range of varying approaches and attitudes and we need to be careful to not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Be careful when buying a cloned module. Be aware that they don’t necessarily undergo the same amount of rigorous testing as the official modules. If you have an issue, you of course need to ask the person who made the module about it. Don’t give for granted that there will be a good customer service. Which is of course not to say that all clones are badly made modules and you’re left alone with your problem if things break, what I want to say is: there’s a lot of different people making these modules, do some research before buying.

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#236

No, I should apologize for being dismissive. It is sometimes hard to remember that new people are joining the hobby every day.

There was some drama recently regarding the share-alike requirement of Mutable’s licensing and it wore me out a bit. But that situation turned out just fine and the community’s support of Emilie was heartening to see.

To your initial question, I think the ethics tests can be personal questions but my own are easy: “Am I making this choice simply to save money?” and “Is the derivative design better for my needs than the original?”

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#237

No worries! I should have done a better job searching for this thread before posting. I appreciate the advice – if the only reason is to save money then I should be careful about my choices.

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#238

That was my impression as well when I heard the pedal demo. Needs modulation. Modulation applied to the pitch input of clouds clone (real thing out of production and used selling for more than cost) was key for me in getting the crack of thunder attack from a mother 32 thunder patch. I’m into noise patches.

When I listen to waterfalls in nature, I hear music and love the way thunder reverberates around a nearby canyon. Very complex the way the initial sound comes back at ya with random delay times, amplitude and Timber.

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#239

A :heart: on a two year old comment made me revisit this thread a bit. I still have some Mutable in my rack and I’m going to pick up a Plaits after letting it go. But, also, I now have a full MN Shared System, along with a couple other modules.

All this is to say, hello two-years-ago-self! You may think differently in the future. And, two-years-from-now-self, I’m curious where you’ll be.

Don’t be afraid to change your mind, is all, or at least refine it.

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#240

As someone who went from peaks to stages as the main modulator, the one thing I miss is the slow slew-y random lfo shape.

Thinking through a possible 4th mode for stages right now—random. Looping, it could be a random lfo, where knob controls slew and fader controls rate (that would get me that feature back from peaks). Non-looping it could be a sort of sample and hold, in that every time you get to the stage it outputs a new value. Im not entirely sure about the fader…it’s be cool if it could control range of values but I’m not sure there would be a way to do that with 1 param, I feel like you kinda need 2 (min/max, center/span). Maybe the cv in acts as center v, normalized to something like 3.5v

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#241

This sounds very similar to what you’re describing.

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#242

Wow, even cooler than my ideas, thank you for the tip, I’ll check it out

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#243

yeah i see i got beat to linking the very cool developments happening with that omnibus firmware

i actually keep Peaks and Stages racked as i can use Peaks to manually trigger envelopes, and often have Stages doing a whole mess of things so i’m cozy leaving Peaks for that task

#244
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#245

Clean design improvement without cramming the controls.
Now buckle up for the so called larger releases.

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#246

No, I refuse to put on my seat belt until I know whether this vehicle is visiting “10HP Blinds”-ville.

#247

Misses already gave a answer on instagram. Blinds will be blinds. No new version

#248

Is this thread a hydraulic press? Because I’m not sure if I’ve ever been crushed so thoroughly. Thank you @bloc.

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#249

Wow, lovely re-design. Always loved veils but thought it took up a little too much real estate for 4 VCAs, but this looks like a lovely layout! Love the switch to faders, also makes it a much nicer interface if you have two next to each other… Plus seems to align with Stages! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

1 Like