new to monome devices: ask questions here

NMR · 2023-07-05T04:35:48.927Z

So, I have an original 128, before it was even called Grid. I would like to start using it again, I haven’t used it in some time though. What do I need to do to make full use of it as if it were a newer Grid?
Software, Updates, Hardware updates?
Thank you.

hammernilla · 2023-07-09T23:32:37.719Z

Hello!
I’ve had a 40H for 15 years plus but haven’t had a computer in several years. Finally got a new one and hoping someone can help a novice fool like myself get back to where I was.

No monôme serial now?
Never used terminal so no clue what to do there.
Only thing I really want is to run MLR if that’s even still hopefully a thing.
Mac OS 12.2

I’d love anything y’all can tell me in the absolute most dumbed down talk to me like a child way.
Thanks!
(Also something I should figure out elsewhere but if others find it easier to do the thing where you run older OS on the same computer is the way to go)

okyeron · 2023-07-10T05:20:36.836Z

Serialosc is what you want

monome/docs

setup

monome docs

UltraBlack · 2023-07-19T20:59:50.191Z

Hey there,
so I’ve recently thought about getting a norns again. A while ago I already considered it but I just wasn’t ready for it.

I have several questions:

What is it with the audio inputs? The docs say

1/4”. 2 output. 2 input. all line level.

but what does that mean? Are both output jacks TS, or TRS? If they are TRS, are you able to process them separately in code?

Why is the norns so damn expensive? It was at like 600$ once, and has sine then gained 300$ - Why? Can you expect a price decline? I would go for a shield, but there are three issues:
The first one is software support. All dealers I’ve seen online sell the norns with the old 2022 less-noisy codec. Do I need a separate linux build for that? Are they even still updated? The other issue is the IO. If the norns has (as I hope) two TRS inputs, the shield does not have that, does it? Is is possible to maybe reuse the headphone port on the RPI as an input? My last issue is hardware support. Is it needed/desirable to have a more powerful norns in the future? I think it’s cheaper to replace compute-modules than replacing entire RPIs. Essentially, I’m only taking the norns into consideration, because I think that it can save me a lot of money in the future, just for it’s feature set. I don’t like hardware that I can’t extend myself or at least expect regular updates for (the KSP is sadly a prime example for that, which I learned the hard way).
Are there cheaper alternatives to the grid? I think the monome grid is an extremely cool tool, and it would probably easily solve my current problem of not having enough seperate polyphonic tracks on my sequencer (Keystep Pro). I have seen incredibly cool sequencers, which are astonishingly hands-on and easy to use, combined with the RPI processing power, it’s probably able to replace my KSP. I however can’t afford a grid at all. A monome by itself would be expensive enough so I don’t really (all all) have 700$ more to spend on a grid.
Does it make sense to use the norns as a (multi) FX unit? FX are currently the issue with my setup, and thought that the norns’ versatility would be perfect for me, but how usable are the community-made FX? It seems that the norns’ focus is not so much being an FX unit but rather being a looper or an instrument. I’m still unsure if I shouldn’t just get a TC Flashback 2 (or x4) for FX. It has surprisingly many features for being reasonably cheap (the former at least), but it’s just not as versatile.
Are hardware specs an issue if I wanted to create my own multi-fx app? How easily does e.g. some reverb without downsampling exhaust the device’s resources?

Do you reckon the norns could be useful for me by itself? Would I be better off with just some cheap TC pedals?

Thanks!

(how do I add the norns tag to this post?)

fellowfinch · 2023-07-19T21:32:20.799Z

Hey and welcome aboard!

I’ll try to give my two cents on the subject, but just so you know I currently only own a shield.

I believe they are 2x TS in/out , but maybe somebody with a standard norns might correct me.

UltraBlack:

Why is the norns so damn expensive? It was at like 600$ once, and has sine then gained 300$ -

Can’t speak for monome but I assume a lot to do with chip shortage. A lot of electronic devices nowadays are sparse and far more expensive.

UltraBlack:

Are there cheaper alternatives to the grid?

Yes. The cheapest you can go is touchOSC and just use your phone or tablet and connect via wifi. You can also use midigrid mod and use some midi grid devices that support the layout. OXI One might be a good choice. I’ve got myself an official monome grid and couldn’t be happier. It’s quick, looks lovely and is amazing to the touch.
4.

UltraBlack:

Does it make sense to use the norns as a (multi) FX unit? FX are currently the issue with my setup, and thought that the norns’ versatility would be perfect for me, but how usable are the community-made FX? It seems that the norns’ focus is not so much being an FX unit but rather being a looper or an instrument.

Although there are some scripts that are based on multiFX, norns at least for me, excels in time based effects, and a lot of people seem to use it as audio mangler. If you’re not into that I’m sure you’ll find more instrument based scripts to your liking. If it’s strictly FX that you’re looking for then maybe ZOIA might be a more interesting device.

If you’re not sure, I’d suggest trying out with a shield and then moving to standard norns.

Hope that helps!

UltraBlack · 2023-07-20T05:23:37.623Z

Norns: help

TRS should work, ring is impedance matched to ground (“fake balanced”)

If that means it’s essentially just 2x TS then it’s sadly not useful.

fellowfinch:

midigrid mod

Gahlord:

Yes.

I have seen that but just using any old grid is so incredibly space inefficient that I might not even be able to fit something like the PO emulator onto the available space.

I have not seen any grids like monome’s (Many small pads) that I could affford.

sonoCircuit · 2023-07-20T06:50:58.574Z

UltraBlack:

sadly not useful

I‘d be interested to know why if you don‘t mind sharing?

sixolet · 2023-07-20T06:55:46.416Z

It sounds like the op was hoping that each input was stereo, rather than mono but accepting balanced audio. Or maybe didn’t know that a trs cable has uses in carrying a single channel of audio.

Anyway, I can feel the disappointment. It sounds like a Norns will disappoint you, op. That’s okay! It might not be for you.

UltraBlack · 2023-07-20T14:39:13.833Z

UltraBlack:

Are both output jacks TS, or TRS? If they are TRS, are you able to process them separately in code?

sixolet:

It might not be for you.

It’s not like a simple IO issue like that is gonna prevent me from using it for FX. I was just hoping that I could get a 2 for 1 kind of deal here.

graymazes · 2023-07-20T16:53:58.852Z

cost/utility ratios are subjective and hard to predict.

but based on the tone of your questions, i don’t think norns is for you, and that is totally fine. (i’m one of the primary developers and tbh it’s not really for me either.)

i’m a big proponent of getting what you need and using what you have. norns is “just” a computer running linux, combined with an audio interface, in a rather nice form factor. however i already have some computers that do quite well at the audio tasks that i want computers for. if you’re posting on here, then it’s likely that you also have a decent computer.

the norns form factor is neat, and i love monome’s industrial design. (btw, maybe i’m not supposed to say this? but: monome grids feel fantastic, and neotrellis grids… mm… don’t.)

but for me i find that in most contexts, incorporating a norns usually increases the amount of devices i need to wrangle, instead of consolidating them.

as a “cost saving” alternative to a “traditional” stereo multi-effect pedal, it makes no sense. there are many impressive flagship products available in that space today in the $600 range (considerably less on the used market or for somewhat more limited functionality, somewhat hgher if you really want to go all out) it is a huge product space if you are not interested in writing your own code.

(i’m not in the market for one of these, but they all look good and i’d guess any would serve as a versatile, reliable music tool for many years to come:

eventide H90 / H9000
TC plethora x3
empress zoia
boss gt-1000
etc, etc )

if you are interested in coding, there are fewer alternatives. as a creative audio coding platform i think norns is quite compelling, especially for beginners. but you can also get into creative audio coding without any new equipment, even running the norns stack on other machines.

and if you are advanced enough in that department, then norns as shipped has limitations that may bother you. (though there is always the possiblity of going all the way down to bare metal.)

specific questions, maybe useful for others;

UltraBlack:

How easily does e.g. some reverb without downsampling exhaust the device’s resources?

there are a lot of kinds of reverb, but from a CPU-cycles-per-audio-block perspective, norns is very capable. (at least a full 1.2ghz core always available for audio processing.) it ships with a decent if unambitious stereo FDN reverb (which runs easily alongside all the other stuff); many users have contributed other FDNs, and a stereo IR convolution engine would be no big deal to add.

but, you know, it’s not a monetizable plugin platform so you won’t be seeing anything by valhalla or eventide or UA showing up there.

low-level limitations of the norns platform:

48k sample rate and no built-in oversampling capabilities. so many kinds of processing would be painful to implement without aliasing.
high latency floor compared to purpose-built digital audio platforms (though low in the context of general-purpose linux) - i’m talking (high?) single-digit milliseconds roundtrip.

those factors make it maybe not the greatest platofrm for, say, an amp simulator. but that’s about all i can think of off the top of my head.

from coding ergonomics perspective: if you are specifically interested in creative delay and buffer manipulation structures, it’s hard to beat.

and as you note, it has a lot of cool sequencers. i think this is beause sequencers are relatively easy and satisfying to create, and norns software stack makes it especially easy. but in general you don’t need the full power of the system for those applications.

UltraBlack:

I think it’s cheaper to replace compute-modules than replacing entire RPIs

sadly, i think this is an area where the RPI people really screwed us all. (not, i assume, with any malicious intent, i hasten to add.) one of the (implicit?) promises of the compute module was future proofing, but CM4 is already a totally different pinout and form factor and you can’t just pop one in a CM3 carrier board. boo. hiss.

Dewb · 2023-07-20T17:00:47.549Z

UltraBlack:

Why is the norns so damn expensive? It was at like 600$ once, and has sine then gained 300$ -

this is not the case, norns launch price was US$800 (see e.g. here)

UltraBlack · 2023-07-20T17:02:03.580Z

well I have seen it being sold new for 600$

graymazes · 2023-07-20T17:25:13.637Z

resellers can ask whatever they like, but norns initially listed at $800 and had one price increase due to increased production cost. them’s the facts

PS. this few-years old thread touched on some relevant territory. now with some excisions.

Why single-purpose computers? (or not) General

i’m interested in a broad discussion about why people do or do not use / buy / design / understand single-purpose sound computers (pisound, norns, organelle, axolotl, bela, MOD, &c) when, indeed, laptops can do all/most of the same things. the reasons can be pragmatic (space, cost), aesthetic, philosophical or whatever. this topic is a bit religious and can get rather discursive, so maybe it would be good to have it away from more “tech support” oriented topics. personally: i like having some…

DatGood · 2023-09-20T20:49:51.024Z

Hi,
Just impulsively bought a Crow out of curiosity. I have no coding experience [actually bought crow to force myself to learn something], I have no other Monome nor Whimsical Raps modules, nor any i2C modules.
So my super dumb question is… what are some of the simplest things I can do with a Crow in my rack?
Feel free to speak to me like I am a 5yo… but a 5yo who is familiar with eurorack.

eblomquist · 2023-09-20T21:00:15.821Z

I’m in a similar boat regarding coding. I do have some i2c stuff, but evidently I’m too inexperienced to really use it meaningfully.

But that’s actually fine! The reason is that I have Ableton Live, which lets me use Max for Live.

This lets me send various kinds of CV and gates from Live through crow to other modules, thereby extending the capabilities of both Live and my modular rig.

That by itself is already really cool.

Eventually, when I retire, which hopefully won’t be too long, I plan to devote some time to learning some elementary coding and such. But for now I am happy with what I can do with crow.

Hope that helps!

renegog · 2023-09-20T21:32:58.150Z

Norns and Ableton are both good ways in… but if those aren’t in your world, have no fear lol

check this out: scripting with druid | monome/docs

once you’ve got druid set up you can run some scripts that have been written and shared, mostly in the bowery collection (links are on the aforementioned page). there are some basic utilities and fun weird things there. could maybe start with some customizations of those scripts as a sort of soft intro into coding your own i haven’t gotten that far myself tho (PS - benefit of this is the computer doesnt need to stay hooked up once you’ve loaded ur script! unless you want to livecode/ make active adjustments and stuff)

notester · 2023-09-21T03:32:43.030Z

crow is a great ingress point into coding because of its input/output limitations and the quick experimentation/feedback loop. the hardest part is getting druid up and running most likely. even without coding, you have the bowery scripts to load into it. and even without that you have “first” loaded by default.

take it a step at a time. it’ll be fun and useful all the way. lua is a forgiving language and the scope of the medium is perfect for tinkering.

MengQiMusic · 2023-10-17T09:34:03.243Z

The DPLPG jacks are mono, in order to accommodate the 3 connections required by I2C (SCL, SDA, GND), you’ll need to replace them with stereo jacks. To make room for them, you may need to saw half of the back PCB down…

However, it is possible that the broken channel could be fixed by replacing a vactrol.

DatGood · 2023-10-18T00:27:33.006Z

My follow up from a month ago… Finally got the Crow this weekend [I was on long trip away from home when I ordered it to my house, finally returned last week].
Crow is great, the concept of scripting is actually not as off-putting. What can I do with it? Well, anything really. I’m aware of the Bowery and the scripts thread here but I’m interested making a bespoke kinda-adder, or a switch or even a Turing-machine-like script. I’ll get there eventually.
But my current obsession is a sequencer-reinterpreter-shift-register-thingy called Memory Loss by @mei . I’ve understood it to be kinda like… the result if you turn the Deja Vu knob on Marbles slightly to the right … but x4 variations simultaneously.

Long story short… I’m enjoying Crow, glad I got it.
(wish it wasn’t USB mini)

mei · 2023-10-18T14:25:21.567Z

hey thanks! glad you like it - the marbles deja vu mechanic was one thing i had thought of too, but i’ve never actually ever used a Marbles… which is one of the nicest things about crow: it lets you easily emulate, remake, adapt and subvert other module functionalities as needed. definitely a desert island tool for me