+1 for getting the UMI3 working

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Back-of-the-envelope (others please feel free to chime in):

  • grid is a norns built-in. grid.connect returns a grid object corresponding to the first grid found by the system (pro tip: you can use multiple grids by e.g. g1 = grid.connect(1); ‘1’ is the default).
  • g.key has to be a function, and, if defined, is an override of grid's default key method (which is just a stub, IIRC).
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no it’s not possible. norns has stereo output. the headphone output is the same analog signal as the main outs, with an extra gain stage.

Hello I’m having trouble accessing maiden from my WiFi
and the internet works fine
I’m wondering what I can do thanks

have you connected your norns to your wifi? Here is a link to the wifi troubleshooting page in the docs :slight_smile:

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Yes it was working fine forever
I brought it on vacation for a few days and I cannot connect anymore
I tried forgetting network and unplugging dongle
I also tried reset
I’m exhausting my options

dang, that is always super frustrating :\

how did the drivers + USB-UART steps go? feel free to email help@monome.org for direct support, as well :slight_smile:
please include:

  • Whether your nub was able to successfully connect with a non-norns computer
  • Screenshots of the terminal screens in step 4
  • Your router config (WPA, WEP, etc)

Ok I’m in terminal what do you need a picture of

the steps in https://monome.org/docs/norns/help/#wifi-troubleshooting, please email :revolving_hearts:

hey guys…

so…performing live with norns can be EXTREMELY STRESSFUL!

starting up norns and the usual issues with USB attached peripherals not connecting properly.
this has been a consistent problem.

i have to quickly check and remove all instances of the USB devices and then do a RESET.
if that doesn’t work…which it didn’t last night…
after which i have to use something to push the little button on the bottom and re-boot norns…then go back through and remove all USB devices again and then add them all back after everything starts back up.

is there anything that can be done in the OS to deal with USB devices in a more stable manner?

like a way for norns to start with a clean slate and make fresh connections with all USB peripherals?

or a way to tell norns to globally refresh all USB connections?

USB peripherals being used:

  • 128 GRID
  • ARC
  • FaderFox UC44
  • WiFi thingie (i usually always leave this connected)

this happens with any sort of number of USB devices connected.

apologies on my ignorance for how all this works!
:slight_smile:

Just so people can assist you better could you list the usb devices you are using? There’s a fair chance one of them is not “playing nice” or pulling too much power from Norns.

Update: Fader Fox UC44 spec is 5V min 300mA … should not be an issue?

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thanks for the suggestion…updating my previous post!

that was my setup for last night’s performance.

it still happens even if i am using a 16n with a GRID and ARC.
and even if i am just using a GRID and or ARC.

hi @SPIKE,

first i should say that i’m not one of the people who uses lots of USB controllers with norns. 1 at most. i also don’t have access to an arc, and so, though i am a primary developer of the norns stack, the part where external devices are managed has gone through a lot of evolutions and im no longer intimately familiar with every part of it.

but we have certainly been paying attention to your reports, i just don’t think we’ve had much success reproducing them, and often i personally find it hard to parse what the direct symptom is.

e.g. here i assume that “not connecting properly” means that after starting up or RESETing, the current script doesn’t interact with connected devices as expected. so it would be great to know what script that is. the problem could be really simple, like: the script is hardcoded to use the first listed device of a given type (like a grid), and we can’t guarantee enumeration order. so we introduced the “vport” system, but this is newer and some scripts don’t use it so they may need to be updated.

echoing a comment the above, i would say using grid+arc is a common use case - though again, one which i can’t test - and we should go through eliminating less-known factors. the main one is

that’s a pretty unusual device, which sends and receives a lot of data and has a pretty respectable current draw when bus-powered (300mA according to the manual.) i think it’s also quite a straightforward device in that AFAICT it is “plain MIDI” and doesn’t enumerate a HID or mass storage device (or something) as well.

but i agree that a first question is definitely about current draw. all three of those are power hungry machines. if we can’t deliver enough current to the USB ports, on of them could be soft-resetting (or soemthing) and thus constantly confusing the device->vport mapping layer in various ways. (e.g. if i repeatedly soft-reset a DIY midi controller here, i can get any ALSA linux system to bork itself eventually, by enumerating a new device before the first one is gone - presumably a race condition of some kind.)

since you seem to use a lot of high-end gear and a lot of USB controllers, i think it’s worth picking up a simple USB current meter. these are inexpensive, and will eliminate some guesswork. brownouts are bad for digital electronics. if you have one of these, you can put it in front of a hub and meaure the comibned draw of UC44+grid+arc with the leds lit, and this will be a good number to have on hand when planning a controller setup, regardless of the host hardware.


eh, i see you updated above that there are issues with grid+arc as well. we just need to reproduce this- in fact someone at the factory does, since i don’t have needed devices here. we don’t need a lot of detail but just: what script are you using, or combination thereof, and what is the symptom of “not connecting.”

also i’m gathering that you haven’t run into issues with only a single device connected, is that accurate?

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thank you for all the info!

this tends to happen with a varying amount of scripts.

i tend to use @Justmat 's MANGL a whole bunch of the time which is what i was using yesterday.

but…i have run into this with Vials, Zellen and a smattering of others.

i actually don’t recall running into it with only one connected device.
but that’s due to the fact i never really use norns with only a GRID or ARC attached…it’s always with both at a minimum.
:slight_smile:

i will get one of those USB current meters!
(didn’t even know such a thing existed!)

just a sec…



ok…i grabbed my gear and just wired it up in my noiz room…
booted up the setup from last night but i ONLY connected the GRID, booted up and started MANGL.

norns crashed (sorry i didn’t turn on the Mac…so no maiden report)

it saw the GRID but it wasn’t controlling reacting to MANGL and then norns froze up.
pushed the button on the bottom and reloaded MANGL with only the GRID and everything started working.

just as an experiment…i went ahead and wired up an ARC without restarting anything.
(i never do that sort of thing…i always wire up USB devices before booting up)
it didn’t light up so i went to DEVICES and saw there were now two ARC instances.
removed both and added one back and it saw the ARC and started working.

ok right. thank you.

it makes some sense to me. the device and vport mappings are persisted to disk. when you launch it with different devices (or even enumeration order, which we can’t predict) we may not have sufficient fallback behaviors when multiple devices are involved.

i think we need a pretty comprehensive overhaul of a certain layer of the device management stuff. this has not been my priority since a) there is a lot of work to be done on audio side/softcut that no-one else will do, b) it’s sort of a chore for me just to get into multi-device setups to test them. but i’ll give it higher priorities.

i also think there is another issue causing lockups with Mangl, which we have been discussing on that thread. i haven’t been able to reproduce, and @Justmat @mattlowery &c, it seems like the grid+arc combo could be a missing part of the puzzle, and maybe even the sequence where you run it once with both devices and again without the arc or something. it may even be that the polls API is being used incorrectly when the arc is attached, and the script is expecting two separate polls when there is only one, or something like that. (i’ll do my best to diagnose lacking the controller hardware.)

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Today Norns startup sound stops during startup, then no sound. I can see the meters moving but no sounds…

hmm. did this persist past a reboot? is it replicable under any specific conditions?

Yes reboot doesn’t solve the issue. White button worked after a few times. I have reoccurring crashes for more than 6 months now. Wondering if formatting and reloading the image will do the fix.

I will attempt to reproduce usb issues and log them. does anyone actually have concrete steps to cause issues?

also @SPIKE I would generally suggest not attaching wifi unless you’re actually using it. I definitely wouldn’t leave it in for live performance.

1 Like