I’ve been using this technique since you posted it. and I have some minor improvements to the workflow(at least from my point of view :slight_smile:)

  1. make an empty(silent) .wav file in you favorite DAW(or on the Octatrack) of the max loop length you want.
  2. Import .wav into octatrack
  3. Adjust the attributes of the silent .wav to match your preferred bpm(load into a flex or static machine, remember to save sample settings after doing this)
  4. Make as many sample copies of whatever different lengths of loops you want. It is important to adjust the sample bpm to the same bpm after trimming the sample. Think of this as prepping tape loops :slight_smile:
  5. Load the recordings you want into the recording buffers of the pickup machines. Normally you can double tap a track button to see the according sample slot list, and the 8 recording buffers on top of the sample slot list (in case it is a Flex machine track). But double tapping the track button of a pickup machine track only gives you the menu to chose a different machine for this track. So you have to double tap a track with a Flex machine on it to get to the sample slot list with the recording buffers. Now use the cursor up/down to select the recording buffer with the number of the pickup machine track you want. Then press “yes” twice, which will open the audio file selector, select the empty audio file you named & saved in step 1/4.
  6. Press Play on the OT Sequencer.
  7. Press Play on each of the Pickup machines in which you loaded the empty recording.

Important! Without these final two steps it does not work! And the master bpm needs to be the same bpm as the sample attributes, but the length can be whatever you want. You might get a loading error when you load the project set up as this, but ignore(press no) when you get the error message. Enjoy!

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I am not quite sure I understand your workflow correctly, but this may be due to the fact that it’s been ages since I used OT’s Audio Editor or edited sample attributes on it.

Here is my understanding of your changes to my workflow:

  • Instead of doing “empty” (= silent) recordings of all required loop lengths, you just record one silent recording, with the longest needed absolute time length.
  • Then you create copies of this recording, trim these copies down to the actual loop length required for a specific BPM in the Audio Editor.
  • Then you save these copies, ensuring the copies’ BPM is set correctly on saving.

Is this a correct understanding?
Some further questions:

  • You trim the copies in Audio Editor > Trim to the desired loop length, right? As far as I remember, start and end points can only be adjusted in samples. How do you ensure to trim a copy to the exact number of steps at the desired tempo?
  • When you trim the copies to the desired loop lengths, you do destructively delete the superfluous parts with Audio Editor > Edit > Crop to selection, right?
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All correct assumptions. But you need to first trim and save your loop length, then go into the editor on the new loop to save the bpm attributes(the OT makes bpm assumptions on new loops).

Well, that is the “cool” part. You can edit down to retry much any length, the amount of steps doesn’t really matter(at least from my testing). This leans more to an experimental workflow thou, and is great for creating phasing loops etc. But, you do get info on how many bars your edited loop is in the editor, but a loop can be (as an example) 0,85 bars long.

I save the selection as a new sample. Can’t remember the menu selection for this since I am not in front of my OT right now. But it is a non-destructive workflow. You end up with an “unlimited” selection of different loop lengths based of one “leader” loop.

Thanks for your answer. My understanding of your non-desctructive workflow is that you create multiple copies of the original (relatively long) loop, which means even relatively short loops use up the same memory size as the original long loop. Is this correct?

If this is correct, your approach would not work for me: I use very long loops, like one with 512 beats, another one with 1024 beats and yet another one with 2048 beats. At 110bpm these total up to almost 489 seconds (or 8 minutes and 9 seconds). This just fits into the OT’s RAM of 85 MB, which is good for something around 8.5 minutes of stereo material @16bit, which needs to be shared between all flex loaded samples, recording buffers and all pickup loops.

So if I try to do this using your non-desctructive workflow (as far as I have understood or potentially misunderstood it :wink: ), I’d need 3 loops each being 2048 beats long, but only one using its full length, whereas the other uses half of its length (1024 beats), and the final one uses only a quarter of its lengths (512 beats), which would simply not fit into the OT’s RAM, as 3 times 2048 beats@110bpm gives almost 848 seconds or almost 14 minutes.

But again, I may have totally misunderstood your approach.

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The copies are of course smaller files, as they will not feature the cropped away material.

My intention on posting the adjusted workflow was just to illustrate an alternative “in the box” workflow. And the main takeaway from my testing is that you can use almost any file (as long as memory allows it) for this pickup machine technique as long as you change the sample attributes to the same bpm on the OT.

Current favorite usage is to have 2 loopers with slightly different buffer lengths and do phasing Steve Reich stuff.

Many thanks for figuring this out, it pretty much makes the OT close to a perfect experimental looper.

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Got it, thanks for the clarification.

Aha, I think now I am getting my head wrapped around your approach – need to try this out! Thanks for sharing!

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Hey folks, I’ve just released a new Rust library called ot_utils which is designed to make it easy to concat audio samples and generate .ot files for the Octatrack.
This is very similar to OctaChainer’s slice feature but it’s made as a very easy to use Rust library so other people can incorporate this functionality into their different projects.

I’ve also added support for ot_utils into my Audiohit command-line utility so it can now automatically trim audio samples, concat them into a unified sample and generate the .ot file.
This should be a straight-forward tool even for non-programmers.

More details are available on the Elektronauts post.

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I know that the OT is often touted as a DAW replacement tool, but I’m wondering if any of you find value in using both? In other words, are there things about the OT’s workflow that lead you down different paths as a composer than tracking into Ableton would?

If yes, elaborate.

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for me it forces me to think more rhythmically, even in an ambient way, which i rarely ever do in pro tools. that’s its benefit to me… which is why i’m interested in the Tracker as well. forcing me out of my comfort zone and approaching composition from a different angle.

reminds me of the time a few years back i bought an SP-1200 to see if i could make ambient music with it… i did give up after a month and sold it (really regret selling it, if not just to look at it in the studio :slight_smile: )… but, yeah, that same concept of forcing a different way of working.

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I use both in my workflow. I find the Octa is great for the initial part of my composition process that is focused on creating loop-based ideas (drum patterns, vox chops, sample flips). I also use thru tracks to record melodies from my modular rack, which is especially useful when I’m jamming and something clicks in the moment. I set up one bank per song and each pattern in the bank as a change in that song.

Once I have enough variation in that song, I record everything into various lengths (in 24 bit) within the Octa, and transfer all the recorded loops into Ableton for final arrangement, mixing and mastering. Ableton (or any DAW) is vital to my workflow because I can use my go to plugins and it’s viewing and editing features in the mixing and mastering process. Then the final mastered stems get cut up and sent back to the Octa for live performance.

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@taylor12k I had a suspicion that this was the case. The thought experiment that I keep running is whether writing an EP with/in/around the OT would yield a fundamentally different result than doing the same thing in Ableton. I grew up recording on tape machines and recorders like the Fostex MR-8, so there’s something about the “deck with tiny screen and limited options” that feels like home to me. I’m often more inspired to learn the workflow of dedicated devices than I am with DAWs.

@Henrycarden thank you for this insight into your workflow. Very interesting!

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i don’t imagine i’ll ever write a complete song on the OT but make loops/tracks to use in larger compositions in the DAW…

yes… the non visual aspect is still one of the reasons I love the OT, keeps me listening/playing rather than watching/plottingthere’s … then there’s also the fact that ( as I think @marcus_fischer alluded to ) that you can do so much on the OT without ever running the sequencer. e.g. individually trigger 8 simultaneous asynchronos loops, then modulate their sound and FX with custom designed LFOs etc. …

I’m very often just using it as an input processor, (with a faderfox controller giving me hands on parameter control)… and then when you get bored you can always kick the sequencer in and go disco :wink:

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@taylor12k Are there things about working in the OT when building elements that you gravitate toward? In other words, does its workflow pull certain things out of you? I realize this is vague and the answer is likely “of course”. I am in that “this thing has interested me for awhile” phase, where I attempt to impose logic on what is an emotional choice :grinning:

i should point out i’ve only owned an OT for like 2 months… so it’s all still very new to me and i’m figuring out my flow. i had originally hoped to use it as a live looper but i have not come to grips with the pickup machines yet or getting them to be longer than one bar… or different lengths/asynchronous… so for now i’ve just been using flex machines on imported sounds.

i quite get along with the elektron workflow in general… having owned a MD in past and currently a digitone and Rytm2 … i like the sequencer and parameter locks and what i tend to do with elektron devices is “throw some stuff in” knowing full well that those initial trigs and sounds are only a tenth of the picture… from there i tweak parameters and parameter locks until something starts to take shape.

i like this approach… “here are some sounds playing now lets’ see if we can sculpt them into something interesting”…

as opposed to my more traditional working within a DAW which is to record a more intentional passage with some acoustic instruments and then build up in more intentional ways from there. with the OT, or elektron devices in general, the parameter locks and tweaking are the composition and arrangement…

if that makes sense…

i look forward to seeing if i can figure out how to better incorporate the pickup machines but for now there’s plenty to learn with just the flex…

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this is something i have not tried or figured out yet… the asynchronous part or “running” it without ever pressing play…

i mean, most of my tracks are asynchronous … i’ll almost always set pattern lengths to different, individual step numbers… but i haven’t figured out pickup machine asynchronicity yet …

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I think the crazy powerful Arranger - one of the most underrated, underused and underappreciated features of the OT - helps bolster the OT as a device with which one can “complete full tracks” (that unicorn of devices).

What it doesn’t offer obviously is the visual representation of your tracks that DAWs do. I find this helps me better in actually completing tracks. But in reliving some burden of remembering arrangements (so one can focus on mangling and fuckery) and arranging drafts, the…er…Arranger is boss.

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asynchronous pickup machines are sadly pretty much impossible. though there’s some interesting workarounds/weirdness with them …
1-

  • set up a pickup machine on TRK1 (for example)
  • set other tracks to use the buffer of that pick-up machine but adjust the timestretch rate to change the length (they’ll be some playback interuption if the pickup is overdubbing, OT doesn’t like playing back from bits of a buffer its writing to annoyingly)

2-
(the weird bug method)

  • set up a flex machine… map the cross fader to control rate (with rate set to pitch in page2)
  • replace that flex machine with a pickup, now you can control the pitch of pickup WHILE OVERDUBBING !! :slight_smile: … it throws up lots of clicky artefacts but can lead to some cool stuff.

The other things to play with is just looping very long files in static machines, triggering them with the appropriate button rather than sequencing them. That way the loop length parameter (Set to Time) defines the synchronicity. Then use trigless P-locks to sequence FX modulation and/or LFOs in patterns that are totally seperate to the file loop length :slight_smile:

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Just want to add the method for async pickup machine looping listed above(again, thank you @wolfgangschaltung). It does require to pre-define the loop lengths, but they can be as long/short as you want. And does not need to snap to whole bars.

Also, following this recent discussion closely, I am trying to figure out a workflow that does not require a DAW. biggest issue I have at the moment is that editing down longer recordings into loops(essential for finishing tracks on my end) is not as easy at it is in Ableton, but I think I just need to spend more time with the OT. Also, I still need an external recorder since I am not really using the OT for much linear sequencing at the moment(but hey, the trusty H4n is always at hand).

You just beat me to writing the same thing! :smiley:

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