Loving this discussion! Banjo is such a cool instrument. I’ve been intrigued by the really primitive fretless ones I saw in a great local guitar shop near Boston, the Music Emporium in Lexington MA.
They look a bit like this: https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_605670
I wound up getting an oud, well a Godin MultiOud, but I feel a strong resonance between these instruments…
Looking forward to checking out the artists mentioned.
Do any of you lines banjoists have recordings we can hear?
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Hey! How did the GAS-thread end up making me GAS for a banjo. This is a weird thread 
An interesting aspect on folk might be how much love and time skilled musicians have dedicated to their instrument. (In contrast to the GAS-buy/sell-trap)
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Reminds me of the “fact” that while a traditional folk musician plays perhaps a guitar, a banjo or a fiddle (or one or two out of a number of instruments), an electronic musician often plays a studio.
Much harder to tell when your instrument is just right when it consists of arbitrary number of lego blocks that make very different kinds of sounds in very different ways, than when the criteria is that whatever one plays is nice to play, looks and sounds good, and has the requisite number of strings. I guess. (I know I’m oversimplifying here, but that’s sort of my experience of the difference)
(And, thinking it another way, it’s pretty rare to hear an electronic musician is a “renowned Octatrack player” or “the quintessential Sequential Take 5 and Cirklon user”, or even without specific instrument design brand names, “sequencer programmer extraordinnaire” / “phrase sampler guru”… I’ll give you Max/MSP and/or modular virtuoso though, but you can really build whole complex studio setups with those)
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Some good points that resonates in your post. I realize that I might underestimate the skill needed on an electronic instrument/interface. I hesitate about buying a banjo, piano or saxophone cause in my head I think – it will take a long time to get any good, I better work on my guitar chops instead. But when it comes to electronic gear I don’t have that kind of impulse control. Only to find that something like an Organelle or Zoia actually takes quite a bit of learning.
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MagicD
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First post! Ed sent me…
I picked up banjo last year. I started on bass about 50 years ago. Inbetween I’ve done lots of… stuff.
I’m a big fan of Zappa. One of things I like about his work is the use of “found objects”. A found object could be a piece of music someone else played. It could be an old car muffler.
A few days ago I was planting peppers and I noticed I had three ceramic pots of different sizes which each had a different pitch. A grabbed some drumsticks and filmed myself playing a two bar pattern. I dropped that into my DAW and mapped out the tempo. I’m adding electronic loops over top. I have too many bass guitars so I’m going to experiment with using different basses throughout whatever this thing is, just to see if I hear a difference. Does the bass sound different because it’s the bass or the way I play it? Can I not tell any difference and should I sell eight of my nine basses?
I’ve rebuilt a guitar I bought in 1985. It’s a “lawsuit” copy of of a BC Rich. It had two DiMarzios but I replaced one with a1959 DeArmond. It’s also got an original CryBaby wah circuit built-in. This is a very sick instrument, clean or dirty. I’ll be throwing that on top.
And for sure I’ll add banjo. Banjo is an incredible instrument. I am in love with my fretless bass, so I think a fretless banjo could be on my list.
I don’t think I’ll live long enough to learn the saxophone.
But I have figured out how to transpose bird (and frog, and aligator) calls to B3. I do that in my prog-punk band.
Cheers!
Dave
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Dave! Welcome to lines!!! So glad you’re here 
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This is pretty much exactly me. I’m occasionally playing around with Pure Data and C DSP code and thinking one day I’d make something for Norns as well, messing around with all kinds of synths & effects & sequencers, playing the Linnstrument, etcetc. because I can and sometimes it’s fun, not because I’m getting any better at this rate of using them, would make anything worth releasing, or could write a plugin someone else would ever want to use. But somehow that same mindset doesn’t apply to acoustic or more “traditional” instruments.
(Although thinking more I have to admit… I’ve bought and later sold a mandolin I never had the time and patience to learn to play, a saxophone that I never learnt to play either and was too loud for my flat back then, an array mbira that I will never ever sell that I can play beautiful things with but not many actual songs, a vibraphone that was the most impressive sounding thing I’ve owned but I never had the patience to get the dexterity and it took up most of my flat then so it had to go, a hang-style tonguepan that sounds beautiful but I’m not entirely sure I can dedicate enough time for practise, lots of guitars one at a time realizing I’m really a bassist and not a guitarist, et cetera et cetera, so maybe I’ll just keep silent from now on 
)
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MagicD
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Best synth I know of is the human voice. No batteries required!
Dave
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Do you know about Sidsel Endresen?
Amazing human vocal “synth”!
MagicD
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No I had not seen that one. She’s using effects, yes? Very cool. I like Mike Patton and he does weird stuff to his voice. Now I’ve got one for you. This is a remix. The original performance is just voice and sax, and you really have to be into it to like it. But this remix take the live performance that extra step. No effects on the voice.
Dave
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I think she is direct other than a little reverb. The guitar on the other hand…
Thanks for the Yoko/Zorn tip, will investigate.
Reminds me I once had a thought of forming a band with two vocal synthesists! Might still try to make that happen…
So here’s an anti-GAS question along those lines-
I work best with structured learning, but in between rehearsals and my day job I do not have time and $ allotted for a regular tutor around my packed schedule.
Of course a qualified instructor would be best for self-improvement. And there are limitations of what can be done without direct observation, analysis and feedback from a instructor with a lifetime of experience. But, are there any best-for-the-possibilities resources for practice and self-improvement in vocal technique?
I naturally want to make and do and learn everything in the world and need to start somewhere outside of karaoke into my own 
I ended up selling all but two different-enough to notice fuzz pedals for that reason!
MagicD
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Get a pitch pipe. A real one that you can carry in your pocket. Blow into it and make a pitch. Now sing that pitch. Choose another note on the pitch pipe (but don’t play it yet). Use your voice to go up or down the scale to that note. Sing the note you think you will hear on the pitch pipe. Now play that note on the pipe to see how close you are.
I used to play a game with a friend in school. We’d start with a known note, then take turns challenging each other to sing an interval. No singing up or down the scale to get there. We’d go back and forth a few times and then check to see if we were close. This is really ear training, but it will teach you pitch control as well. Oh, and stop smoking too. That only helps for a few years. You get a nice leathery voice but then you die.
Dave
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Often easier to invest money than time. But just as you can’t put a price on time, what you get back from committing it to something like learning a defined instrument is priceless.
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Not a bad idea (the pitch pipe), thank you!
I worked on my pitch when I was younger (and had more space to embarrass myself ) by going into the garage, plinking around on my casiotone and squeaking along, trying to harness the beats between frequencies.
There’s also EarMaster for a more interactive/guided interval training, of course.
I’m still curious about breath technique over pitch on top of that, I’ll do a little research.
And that’s the rub with age and GAS, vague “money” is easier to invest than time (whether you’re buying Behringer on up) and tossing money at vetted products is always something we’ll have more opinions over structured learning technique. End result? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Still much easier to arrange intense, deep focus while in school and without a fulltime gig.
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I’ve found recording myself and going back later to analyze my playing to be helpful. A little time between them can help provide the perspective akin to that of “a different person.”
Also, Morton Subotnick mentioned playing his recordings for other people, but insisting they didn’t give feedback. He benefitted from noticing his own feelings about the music in the context of others listening to it.
And yet, it’s the only way to practice effectively…
Not a popular tutorial/review subject for the synthfluencers, I know.
Also worth considering how much time gets sucked up by forums, reading about and debating gear, shopping for/buying/selling gear, and watching videos about it all. That’s the same time needed for practicing.
And is a choice whether we like to admit it or not…
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MagicD
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Breathing is good! As I sit here, I am building an instructional video for work. Part of that includes recording and editing the voice-over. I started with tape, but you can’t analyze and edit tape the way you can with digital waveforms. So for a long time, I have been acutely aware of the timing of human voices when recorded, either singing or speaking. That timing is all about breath control.
Working with close analysis and editing shows me exact timing and pitch. I realized as soon as I started recording that when I played bass with my fingers, I was always behind the note. Pick no prob. So I’ve adjusted my technique for recording. Same with singing. I know when I am flat or sharp right away, just by looking at the track. So that awareness becomes it’s own form of learning.
I think unless you want to do something fancy like Tuvan throat singing, it’s really about helping the machine work as efficiently as possible. The best singers I’ve recorded know when to breath in. And for sure there are physical exercises to strengthen the diaphragm to control breathing out.
I once recorded a band called Meliah Rage. Got them a deal with Epic. I was in the control room with the singer. He is wearing phones cranked so they are blowing the hair out of his ears. He’s singing into an SM57 because I don’t trust him with any other mic. And when this very athletic dude screams at the absolute limit of his voice, it is a sound to behold.
This is also why I’m learning to play the harp. Much easier on the ears.
Dave
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I suppose the lesson I can take here is to keep jamming and singing, but the intentionality and structured self-learning needs to involve recording it all to “tape” and reviewing the warts 'n all with a critical ear with a notepad for follow-up on successes and tendencies that need attention.
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I asked a friend who was classically trained in trumpet and composition about this and his advice was essentially what you just summarized.
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I would try to book at least 1-2 in-person lessons with a vocal coach, though, since posture issues, not “breathing from the diaphragm” sufficiently, excessive neck tensing, and such, are hard to pinpoint and then to correct without someone being able to see your body singing.
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