#41

ah i meant in the context of saving $$. edited my post :slight_smile:

1 Like
#42

Agreed with what everybody has been saying about modular cost vs other instrument and equipment costs. And about how flexible it is.

I’m also a Max and PD fan, and use both for a lot of things in both music and art. I’ll echo some of the previous statements made about immediacy and planning. I find physical modular (and similar things) more appealing when I want to turn something on and just try stuff. Max or PD feel like they require more planning, and more steps before something meaningful happens… you could get around that by building up your own library of higher level patches, but in all my years using the tools I’ve just never felt like doing that.

As for modular size, I think I have a fairly big system (by some standards anyway, on MW i think my qualifies as “tiny”). After a lot of experimentation I’ve landed at a stable size of 12U (4 rows) 104hp. But unlike @ellips_s, I find this size works for me. It’s organized more or less as one row of sequencing, one row of modulation, one row that is two synth voices, and a row of sampler/drums/effects. I also use a few non-eurorack things on a regular basis.

Sometimes it still feels like too much, but I use it all and really love what I have.

Was it expensive by the time it got to this point? Sure. But no more than other good instruments, studio equipment, furniture, or other tools for my work and art. And it’s very satisfying.

#43

I also would suggest not thinking of hardware modular as “the real thing”, as it suggests a software modular environment is merely trying to emulate a hardware experience.

6 Likes
#45

The big investment you are making in a module is probably not money after all. It’s your time, energy and commitment. It’s the hours you’ll put into it, to learn how things work, to experiment and explore. It’s your mental energy. Before the modular you’d maybe think about lots of things when your mind wanders off… but now you just think about the modular. It might own your thoughts, you might dream about it.
You’ll watch endless youtube videos in the attempt to learn more about it. Practise patching techniques, wonder why things don’t sound the way you’d like them to sound.
It’s not even about time (which would be a rather fordian way to see these things) it’s more about focus and attention and about what your life is all about. An instrument (be it the modular or anything else) might be something that takes that way from other things. For example you might decide to invest less in your day job, see friends less, or renounce to something you’ve been doing for years to spend more time with the instrument. It might make it hard to balance your life, without taking away from your loved ones. Money might seem a secondary thing at one point (though likely I’m just in a very luxurious position to be able to say so).
If you’re thinking about modulars all these things have likely already happened and if not… well maybe you shouldn’t get into it, though maybe I’m overdramatizing this…

6 Likes
#46

Ok, so my dramaticism might’ve led this thread down a bit of a different path than I was expecting :thinking:…

You’re all right when you say that I likely could afford a modular synthesizer over time If I wanted one, and the fact that I already have an OK recording setup probably attests to that. It seems like there’s a lot of paths for spreading that cost out which does make it a lot more accessible to people less well off (not necessarily me) or just starting. And you’re definitely right that a lot instruments and gear can become equally or more expensive.

I guess I’m more interested in music/sound setups that just avoid the need to expand in order to alter one’s way of working, for reasons of cost or otherwise. I’ve personally turned to software just for this reason (despite the inherent limitations over hardware, which I’m still interested in talking about). I’m now realizing that a healthy outlook on modular synthesis or other types of gear could probably accomplish this as well. So think maybe that’s a better thing to talk about! The idea of not spending more rather than not spending at all, because I think we’ve more than determined there aren’t a lot of ways to not spend at all (I had to get a computer and headphones and software before I could use MAX/MSP, you’re right).

2 Likes
#47

Wow, thanks for sharing this. I haven’t heard about this before and it looks pretty amazing. Yea, these were the types of things I was thinking about. Alternatives to a modular mindset that just require one piece of hardware (in this case a computer). I’m not sure if Max/PD alone accomplish this well just because of the learning curve.

This starts to solve the problem that @sandy and @mdg are bringing up, about max etc. not having that “pick up and play”-ness that makes modular synths so appealing

1 Like
#48

I personally am not at all interested in software synths but I wholeheartedly agree. I think of it as a personal preference, not real/not real or good/bad.

#49

Yea, agreed, I’ve gone down a similar path with software and it’s been really rewarding for me personally.

I saw your post for PASS and I really love the idea of it, modular might be more accessible than I thought but there’s certainly a lot of things that aren’t, especially when you start getting into VR.

1 Like
#50

Oh yea, I think software modular has the capacity to go beyond hardware in a lot of ways.

#51

And I think a combination of software and hardware can go beyond both :slight_smile:

3 Likes
#52

I suppose that is all relative - I had a pair of ~$350 JBL LSR305s that I personally consider plenty “decent,” and that is less than many single modules.

I personally haven’t been using any software modular stuff, but this is an especially good point regarding some digital modules and something like VCV: the VCV Mutable modules literally run the same code as Mutable digital hardware modules, for example, whereas a lot of people would incorrectly consider it an “emulation”.

#53

You are right: what is “decent” will mean different things to different people, and certainly in different contexts.
I was thinking more along the line of mid-size Genelecs, or Focal etc.

2 Likes
#54

I’m totally Johnny One-Note about this and it does cost some money, but Blocks in Reaktor 6 are another great way to split the difference between a simulated-modular experience and the more Max- or PD-like graphical-programming experience. If you already have a capable computer, I think it’s a great choice, too often neglected.

2 Likes
#55

Yea, that looks like another interesting alternative. The cost seems manageable, although I feel like I’m always going to gravitate toward more open-source (or at least modifiable) solutions just because it lends the option to customize or expand it if it becomes necessary, and potentially run on slower systems.

#56
6 Likes
#57

I think some of this attitude comes from devaluing design and process. With e.g. puredata I can do literally anything but I don’t. I’ve never found it easy to fool around and make noises like with a modular setup (or guitar, or keyboard). I don’t think this is fundamentally a problem with software, but I think there’s a tendency for software to behave more like a sandbox than a designed object. Musical instruments are fundamentally design objects and should be treated like it.

I think another part is the economics of it, like other brought up. The market for modular synths is much smaller than the market for guitar pedals (or even synthesizers), so designers need bigger margins to justify research. And the market for audio equipment is already pretty small.

8 Likes
#58

i just wish Aalto had a dang random/SoU! Would be pretty much unstoppable if it did

#59

such an incredible resource - thanks for sharing this!

1 Like
#60

DANG this RM Francis album is good! I’d never heard his stuff before, but totally makes sense that he’s playing with OM label mate GS Sultan.

I really like the Max -> VST/DAW approach as well, even just running them both at the same time and piping modulation/midi between the two.

#62

Musical instruments are all about interface and workflow. To me, modular is just a way to break out my favorite things into something actually playable. Theres a reason people like Mutable Instruments don’t really care their modules get cloned in VCV ( aside from the fact that they are chill af )

If you’re short on money take some time to learn some hardware engineering. A teensy and some pots can make you all the digital modules you could ever want. Its honestly not that hard and I’m sure the community here ( myself included ) are happy to help.

BTW: If you are already into the computer consider saving up for the Expert Sleepers ES-8 + a module you like, patching in and out of the computer (with VCV in my case) gives you the best of all worlds and makes sure you’re never in that awkward spot where you feel your modular is incomplete and you feel inclined to buy more stuff.

2 Likes