#87

i have one and love it! it was used and 600 dollars. as the price has climbed it’s gotten more and more embarrassing to take outside. it has now surpassed a month of my rent in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

people fairly regularly ask how much it was and if it’s worth it and my answer has gone from “if you can get it used it’s great!” to “no fucking way is this thing worth that price” as the used price climbed towards 1000usd. if this becomes known as the new price point i will legit be too embarrassed to take it anywhere which defeats the purpose of the thing…

the sound quality is noisey, but it’s fine. the build quality is subpar for the price, the headphone jack on my io board was poorly soldered, a common problem for op-1s. it has some totally unique strengths for sparking creativity, and that was worth a premium in spite of these issues for me. i can’t imagine how sad i would be if i had paid more than double for it.

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#88

Yeah, I still kind of had the OP-1 on my radar, remembering those $600 used prices. I guess not now :slight_smile:

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#89

I spent a long time deciding and ultimately went Norns instead of OP-1 for a portable instrument. Very glad I did.

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#90

people are putting just as much work into inspired ui design on norns and those scripts are free and editible. its a way better deal imo.

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#91

Buying an OP-1 six years ago rekindled my music-making after years of hiatus, so I think the world of it. It’s still my favourite instrument, and my son’s first instrument, which he really enjoys. But after condemning the prices of second-hand OP-1s in their newsletter only two months ago, then re-releasing it with something close to a 50% price increase seems just very, very cynical.

The original edition had an OLED screen, which used only 2/3 of the screen estate, the rest was hidden under the cover: https://github.com/op1hacks/docs/blob/draft/hardware.md#display. If the the new one has a custom screen, that would definitely explain some of the price increase. I guess we find out soon enough when somebody peeks inside their new and shiny OP-1…

I wouldn’t buy one now because I couldn’t justify the price, but on the other hand, I can’t put a price tag on the fact that music-making has been back in my life since I bought it…

Edit: Based on this listing (https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20180507045355&SearchText=74-X000045), it might be that the price of the display has gone up from around $60 to $200, even if they haven’t manufactured a custom screen. (Previous link via https://op-forums.com/t/replacement-screen-for-op-1/7232/8.)

#92

There has always been something about the OP-1 that appeals to me. It is the same reason why I love the Elektron A4, Rytm, and Octatrack. Synth in a box is just a cool engineering feat, and it is fun to explore the island. I really like the design aspect of it.

But honestly, at $1,300 I can’t justify it. I think TE is getting unfairly flamed for the price hike. People just don’t understand that the synth industry is at the mercy of the smartphone industry. In many cases sourcing parts is like being a beggar. You take what you can get.

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#93

They’re a boutique company from an expensive country and they’ve made a name for themselves designing innovative if traditionally “underpowered” products. I’m not surprised they’re raising their prices but it has killed any potential interest in the OP-1 for me. That said, the OP-1 came out many years ago and still feels ultra futuristic. There’s nothing that truly competes in terms of form factor, portability, elegance, and whimsy. But I suspect that will change soon.

I overheard some folks at last year’s Ableton Loop conference talking about how the TE team doesn’t give a fuck. Probably a gross exaggeration but it did seem to sum things up. For design and innovation that attitude does wonders. Not so when it comes to customer relations. We’ll see how the business plays out over the next decade.

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#94

No doubt it’s a lot of money, but when you consider that the Klon (a simple opamp based overdrive pedal) is being remade and sold on eBay for $2000 it puts things in comparison slightly.

I believe the op1 is on permanent display at moma… I think it’s range goes further than just being a musical instrument; it’s now a design object/classic.

Look at the high cost for something like an eames chair; people are prepared to pay for exemplary design, and TE know it.

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#95

on the plus side a norns + grid is pretty much a bargain.

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#96

The one thing I always loved about the OP-1 were some of the sequencers, especially the Tombola seq but I presume that it’s possible to recreate that one in Lua for Norns?

#97

totally agree.

i´ve seen 3u eurorack setups more expensive than than 2x op1´s (and they´re basically a simple monosynth).

#98

I think you’re right (Eames chair etc.), except for one thing : as a designer, as far as I’m concerned the OP-1 has a lot of design flaws. Noisy line out, lack of full MIDI specs, unable to properly change the battery, OS not updated often, etc.
I had one when it first came out. Lot of fun, for sure. But too many design problems for it to be a “proper” music instrument, and worse, for a product with a durable vision (which is modern design I think). A joyful musical “toy”, actually, and upgrading the price without upgrading the product seems like a cynical commercial gesture from my point of view.
Anyway, Norns might be that design masterpiece I wish OP-1 would be (open-ended, upgradable etc.). Just waiting for the cash to buy one.

I might be wrong, but just my two cents.

PS. Please pardon my bad English, I’m French…

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#99

Yes I can definitely see your point. I didn’t know it had the battery charging issues.

I do think there can be flaws that contribute to making a design/giving it character. For example the woefully under-specced transformers+PSU on an old Tweed Deluxe giving it that ‘tweed deluxe sag/sound’. Or the imperfect shape and tuning drift of old analogue oscillators etc.

Totally agree on the Norns: the Grid is a beautiful design (one of the only pieces of music tech my wife has commented on: ‘that looks really cool’ :grin:), and the Norns has upped the ante even further.

Not sure if Brian and Kelli are fans of Dieter Rams but their work perfectly follow his 10 principles of good design.

Can’t wait to get my Norns :heart:

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#100

So, it sounds like the screen part has changed, but obviously not $500 changed. So what else might have changed?

The screen part might have to be bought in larger minimum quantities. That could imply hedging some of the risk by raising cost - ie, they have this screen, but they have to buy 10,000 of them, not 500 at a time. You could either hope to sell tons, or just raise the price a bit to cover some risk.

Also: BOM cost to final cost varies, but 5:1 isn’t a bad rule of thumb for a product that makes money, so a $20 screen price-hike at supplier translates to another $100 you pay.

If they’ve not only changed screen, but changed manufacture partner - potentially not just for the straightforward things like the electronics, but the aluminium (which is fairly premium and they would have high tolerances on), that could impact pricing. It’s unclear if that’s happened.

Let’s also include inflation: $799 in 2011 dollars is $915 in 2019 dollars, so at least $100 of that pricehike is ignorable.

So: we have maybe $100 of inflation, perhaps $100-$200 of screen costs (because of a $20-$40 bom hike from screen alone). That’s before you consider anything like manufacture changes, higher cost of doing business. This doesn’t get me to $1299 in one fell swoop, but it does creep there slowly.

And: they’re a business, selling a product, and if they can sell the number of them at the price they ask - ie, the market will bear it - then there’s not necessarily a reason to make them any cheaper. Not all companies want to shift as many units of a thing as they feasibly can; sometimes, they want to sell the amount a 40-person company can deal with. Just because Korg or Yamaha could make the same thing cheaper doesn’t mean everybody should. Whether or not you think that’s “greed” is up to you.

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#101

I’m not sure why I’m invested in this discussion so much – perhaps I feel there’s an unacceptable “additional” commodification that my favorite musical instrument fell victim to. It’s a bit silly of me. =)

While I do appreciate the “designness” of OP-1, it’s not a priority for me. (The sheer amount of YouTube videos it’s featured in makes it obvious that it is for many.)

Anyway, I wanted to point out that even though there are additional costs for the new edition, there’s also less costs involved if we think of the initial investment of coding and design, which decreases per unit the more they are sold (or does not figure at all at this point, depending on how you want to frame it).

Perhaps something positive comes out of this price hike – for example, more development efforts in the open source version (https://github.com/topisani/OTTO), or implementation of the OP-1 tape/sequencers in Norns or Organelle…

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#102

There’s a lot of bashing going around TE at the moment.

Someone on another forum pointed out that they had to cancel all pre-orders for 2 out of 3 of their modular announcements due to manufacturing issues. (see: http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/02/13/teenage-engineering-cancels-modular-orders/) I remember they were looking for someone to handle their production line, they did have issues with materials. And they also seem to announce/hype stuff way too early to be a healthy strategy for the company.

Maybe there’s a connection between the cancellation and the price increase?

#103

One question for you guys …
I have an OP-1 that I mainly use to create ambient pads outside my modular setup. The thing is that just for this I find a lot of limitations and a pretty noisei signal out from the stereo Jack on the OP-1.
So un my situación, would you trade your OP-1 for a, lets say, Digitone plus dime bucks for the proceso difference?

#104

Kind of annoys me how much bashing there is. They’ve made an effort to make things more affordable recently with pocket operators, OP-Z (much cheaper compared to OP-1), and PO modular. It’s a very small company trying to deal with many production issues and people automatically assume they just want to get rich quick. Hardware is hard and they are not a giant like Korg.

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#105

Everyone makes good points here. I’m happy to give TE the benefit of the doubt that the raise in cost is entirely component-based while also acknowledging that $1299 is clearly too much for the device.

I think what makes this more frustrating is that it’s been 8 years since it was initially launched, it’s still the most interesting concept that they produce, and there is a very likely chance that they could have designed and produced a OP-2 with components with more stable future supply and probably could have utilized a better screen for less cost as well as addressed some of the other issues with the product. That either could have resulted in a more modern product at the older price or something truly worth the newer price.

Maybe it made more sense to design and produce 9 pocket operator models, a new modular system realized in three products, the op-z, etc., but I think simply producing a real successor to the OP-1 would have generated more excitement than all of those combined.

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#106

Haven’t seen this emphasized in this thread, or maybe at all, but Teenage Engineering is not a music tech company. They don’t seem to ever have been interested in boxing themselves in. They seem more in the industrial design/art/fashion company. To some degree, they’re selling a lifestyle/image and some people like that, some people don’t.

I’ve owned the OP-1 since 2011 (had to check my email receipt). Over the years a lot of info gets fuzzy, but I feel like they’ve said they don’t have interest in an OP-2 or anything.

Still, they’ve proven that the OP-1 is pretty revolutionary in more ways than one. It’s not a perfect tool, but that doesn’t exist. People who say it doesn’t work for music haven’t paid attention to the people who have integrated it perfectly fine into their workflow, so presumably they mean it doesn’t work for them.

Anyway, back to the ‘controversy’ - I don’t have nearly the emotional attachment some have placed on Teenage Engineering. I’m not surprised at the price raise, I don’t feel betrayed, and I’m happy I have one. I debated selling it when the price ballooned, but am perfectly fine continuing to use it for the applications it works well with. I own nothing else by Teenage Engineering because the OP-1 was the only tool that made sense for me (though sometimes regret not getting a Unit Portables case for it).

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