#128

I’m not sure I’d call 40 people a ‘small’ company - I’m just in the process of leaving the company I founded which now is just over 50 people - a big reason I’m leaving is that I’m best suited to small companies. We (I’m staying on the board & I’m still a director - just not an employee anymore) have HR and rules and all the things I started a company to avoid ;-). I also know what our salary bill is each month and it’s not the amount you commit to without knowing where it is coming from - ie regular predictable sales and all that that entails. And unless you are solely owned by founders that have no interest in the valuation of the company then no matter how cool your creatives are you have money people worrying about margins, run rates and all that kind of thing too…

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#129

Well, if you’re comparing to eurorack manufacturers I’d have to say you’re comparing apples to oranges. The audience might be similar, but it’s not the same market exactly.

Just as a background (since I started it), I’ve worked from anything from 5, to 20, to 400 people just in R&D. So I’m familiar with the differences in size.

But to bring it back to what you pointed out, the price change complain has some merit in as much as that TE have not yet answered as to why they did the change. There is a chance it was manufacturing pressure or that it might not make sense for them to continue the product otherwise.

In any case, I have to point out, as someone else did before me, that they advised people not to pay prices at the 8k level, they did not say anything about the 1-1.3k level. That’s a huge difference and I don’t think that point holds any merit.

Not defending TE, at least I don’t think. :slight_smile:

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#130

They did answer a couple of days ago in a statement published here: https://www.musicradar.com/news/this-is-why-teenage-engineerings-op-1-just-got-a-huge-price-hike. Pretty much according to forum speculations. :wink:

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#131

im reticent to call that an answer

#132

a 300$ price hike over 8years of production is absolutely within reason when considering global economics and the complexity of components in the op-1. No need to attribute sinister motives to TE. Its a luxury item.

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#133

perhaps. but the hike was $500 or 50% more than its previous MSRP. it is the most extreme price hike in boutique electronics that ive ever seen.

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#134

The most recent hike came rather abruptly so it stings a bit more than the slow creep of inflation everything else endures. But I’ve never seen a boutique electronic with as much global demand as the op-1. Its actually priced more appropriately in the market now. It was a steal at $799 8 years ago, it was, and still is in a field of its own. If upping the price makes it commercially viable to continue to produce, then i say go for it. Who knows maybe I’m wrong and the new price will fall flat on consumers and no one will buy it, but i highly doubt it. Its for a rather affluent niche market, TE knows this, thats why they are trying to create more products that appeal to lower economic brackets.

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#135

yeah i agree w what youre saying. good points. that said id like to go on the record with my contention that this move will doom the OP1. granted its a small sample group but literally everyone i know is pretty disgusted with the hike and has completely ruled out OP1 as an intriguing GAS creator.

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#136

You could absolutely be right. When the op-1 came out, they didn’t have the competition they do now, elektron for example, killer devices, hard to compare an octatrack with an op-1. TE is the apple of synths, I think people will continue to buy them for asthetic and user experience reasons. People who want power and functionality will look elsewhere, like those who build their own PC vs just buying an “overpriced” iMac.

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#137

To answer the question wether or not it’s a worthwhile investment: it’s up to the individual and what they hope to get out of it.

In regards of the new price: your life does not depend on it. If you don’t want to buy it at the new price then don’t and move on.

All in all I feel TE it’s getting more hate than they deserve. They could have killed the OP-1 and let the second hand prices get out of control like they temporarily were last year(+2K). Instead they saved it.

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#138

I couldn’t imagine what the second hand price would have been up to now if TE decided to kill the op-1…

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#139

I truly do not mean to single you out, but I keep seeing this inaccurate 50% number over and over. That would be extreme if it were true, but it’s a hyperbolic figure.

The reality is TE has been quietly & incrementally raising the price over the last few years, from $799 to $849 to $899 (what I paid for mine, in 2017) to $999 in 2018 when it was last available. So this is actually a $300 price hike, or 30%. For comparison, a module or pedal released at $149 and later raised to $199 would be a 33% price hike, same as a gallon of milk that goes from $2.99 to $3.99.

This is supply and demand 101 - they couldn’t increase production fast enough to meet the demand even at $999. Price goes up, demand cools (i.e. internet grumbling), the manufacturer can hire more staff and be better equipped to meet the demand that remains, and equilibrium returns to the market.

If there are enough people who value it at $1299 new, they will be able to buy one when they want without having to wait months or buy used, and the increased capital allows TE to grow and continue designing unique and inspiring products. Contrast that with a situation where the used market puts that money into the pockets of those fortunate to already have an OP-1 that they no longer want.

And if this truly does tank demand for the OP-1, TE will undoubtedly lower the price again, and there will be even more internet grumbling but demand will rise too.

I don’t expect everyone to share this viewpoint, but I hope this illuminates why this is not as outrageous of a move as it’s being made out to be. If the price makes you no longer want an OP-1 you would have bought at a lower price, then weird as it sounds, the market is functioning correctly.

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#140

While I don’t think they’d ever lower the price again, I agree with the rest of this. Ties perfectly with TE’s own statement:

When Teenage Engineering faced the reality of the OP-1’s future, there were only 2 choices: kill or save. We decided to save it.

This is a design studio that greatly understands emotion. I think this is a solid, if somewhat perverse, business move for them as a company (and not necessarily a win for their customers).

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#141

i said upthread that i was going to be interested to see how TE fans made themselves ok with this huge price increase and now i have! they definitely have a charitable base and thats great for them. hopefully theyre able to continue to expand it

#142

As a company, I think TE has the right to sell their products at the price they decide. We don’t have the information to make conclussions on why they rise the price of something, but even if we had, the final decision is up to them. As customers are the ones to decide whether or not to buy their products. By the way, I have several PO’s and an OP-1.

Having said this, we also have the decision to put whatever price we want for a second hand item. And that’s my only complaint about TE, when they published a comment about an eBay add saying “no one should pay that price for an OP-1” … Specially because now a lot of people are thinking the same way about them …

#143

wow, that’s a lot of posts about OP-1’s price hike.

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#144

If you use hardware synthesizers and you’re not using the likes of an SK-1 or a DX-100 then on some level you have money to burn on your artistic pursuits. Whether the current MSRP of the OP-1 is excessive or not is a matter of degree.

As others have said, no one is under any obligations here. TE will sell it at the price they choose to, and people will buy it for that price or they won’t.

Usually manufacturers hide price increases in new models, updates, etc. There’s more of a perception of value, but there’s also inflation and increased cost of doing business tucked away in there. In a way what TE is doing is almost more honest.

Maybe they’re just funding their coke habits? Or buying Basquiat originals to hang in mega yachts so that their toddlers can fling cornflakes at them? I kind of doubt it though.

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#145

‘That’ price they were talking about was 8600 USD. People conveniently leave that little detail out when complaining about the new price.

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#146

Yes … That was totaly crazy … But I guess that people here are missunderstand two conceps: price and value. Prices depend on the demand, and I guess that if only one OP-1 unit were available in the world instead of going to eBay It would go to Sotherby’s …

Anyway, I’m Happy that the OP-1 is back on sale. That means still support from the company and service for repairs …

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#147

Bought one new and it arrived yesterday, after three hours with it I can already say it’s the most underpriced piece of gear I’ve bought all year :wink:

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