updated top post, with overview of controls of orac

Ive also added ‘upcoming features’, which are things I plan to do , likely for next release (no promises :wink: )

one thing I would like to get some feedback is the current controls of Orac…
once you get used to them do they feel ‘natural’?


"more background info... aka thinking behind current UI" (click to expand)

here is what I set out to do:
I want Orac to be a very similar experience to the Organelle (so as to help share experience between platforms).
Orac is not the same as the Norns software, so things have to be different, but were possible i don’t want the UX to not conflict, so try to use some common ‘gestures’ between norns and orac.

however, I don’t use the norns software much, and very few scripts - so quite possible there are some improvements that could be made :slight_smile:

hers is my thinking so far:

we have limited UI to work with which has to work with 3 and 4 encoders.
so Im using :

  • encoder
  • button press
  • button + encoder.

I could use long hold (no encoder) vs short press, but I know some users have issues with this, so Im at present avoid this.
Im currently trying to only have one ‘function button’ (button 3), to avoid too many things being overloaded.

so here is how i think it maps to norns : (given my above disclaimer about not known norns well!)

but 1 - is used in norns to switch between play/menu … hence its use as flip to main menu/param screen
enc 1 - select tabs in norns in main menu, hence its use in main menu.
enc 2/3 - are used in norns in menus and parameter screen to select parameters and change values.
but 2 - back, but 3 - ok/select
(but 2 is reserver for aux button later, which is used a lot on patches)

but 3 as shift button.
I chose this, probably because im right handed (!) , and so it’s natural when holding norns to easily hold it down whilst turning encoders.
I use encoder 3 as page - as its close to but 3, so feels like ‘minor change’ and encoder 2 as module since its not quite as close, so ‘bigger change’ .

my current feelings , things Im not sure about

Im not sure enc 1 for selecting menu items - sometimes it feels like enc 2 would be more natural.

but 3 + enc 2/3 (module/page) … sometimes I feel like enc 2/enc 3 should be reversed?
… not sure why, perhaps because we read left to right, so page then module?

If i free up enc 1 (from select menu item) , then perhaps enc 1 (no but3 = page/module?) with but 3 (shift) = page/module? - again not sure if unshifted should be page or module.

thoughts, other ideas?

I think we get one opportunity to ‘revise’ the controls due to user feedback,
then we should try to keep them the same, so that users can build up familiarity.

one plea… please base your feedback on experience using Orac for a bit,
this is not just about logical placement, it’s more about what feels right once you have got used to things.
to some extent all layouts will tend to feel weird/odd when we start out, and sometimes with cramp UI there has to be a compromise between ‘logical layout’ and what feels good after getting familiar.

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I was wondering since i have some patches that i made for the organelle on pd, if this could be used on orac for norns? I made some automatonism patches that would like to use in orac for norns.
Thanks!

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patch for sidekick up on patch storage https://patchstorage.com/aquarius-5-2/
poly synth with presets hold aux (button 1) to access other synth parameters and use fs (button 2) to change preset. :grinning:

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awesome, @martindunne :slight_smile:

one thing… as its not an orac module (*) , can you change its category in patchbox to puredata.
also you might want to review the tags … orca/organelle…
perhaps just change them to norns?

(*) otherwise orac users are going to get confused that they cannot load it up as a module in orac :wink:

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Hi!
Coould you post an example of :
~/sidekick/System/startvnc.sh

Im having trouble loading vnc server directly from fates.

It works fine if i do it trough ssh in terminal, and killing sidekick as per the instructions on the video.

Thanks!

installing over the (way back) first version I got this bit of error:

Setting up sidekick (0.1.1-7) ...
cp: cannot stat '/usr/local/sidekick/system': No such file or directory
Removed /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/norns.target.
Created symlink /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/sidekick.target → /etc/systemd/system/sidekick.target.
Setting up mec (0.2.1-11) ...
Setting up orac (0.2.1-6) ...

Any worry there?

A couple notes on the install instructions:

  • after installation, should you reboot?
  • A “How to launch into sidekick” header would be helpful. Right now t’s a bit ambiguous as the “3 buttons for 5 seconds” trick is listed under the Updates section.
  • Is “bring up sidekick in the normal way” done at boot - or at any time? (looks like at any time)

sry, missed this.

no worries on the cp, its just ive removed the only ‘System’ command (poweroff), so nothing to copy.

iirc, I think you don’t need to. but honestly its easier if you do :wink:

you do need to reboot after uninstall.

ok :slight_smile:

?
not sure I understand the question.

it was not clear if I needed to reboot while holding all three buttons, or if I just hold all 3 buttons at any time for 5 seconds. It appears to be the later :slight_smile:

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yeah, rewrote the notes a bit … hopefully a bit clearer now.

indeed for updating, you just need to bring up sidekick, and then select check for updates.

Hi Technobear

I would love to try Pd on the Norns! but i want to keep the Norns pristine so to speak
should i wait till you squash a few more?
I am comfortable with MEC already though of course

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This doesn’t change norns software at all.
Merely provides a way to launch other things :slight_smile:
(eg latest norns update I still did a standard System>Update)

All is stable (afaik).

If you have ‘doubts’ best ask some of the users here that have installed it, if they have noticed anything odd. - @Justmat has it on a proper norns.
( I’m not best person to judge as I hack pretty much everything I own :wink: )

on the PD side the only likely changes are to add graphic methods to supplement the text stuff already present.

(current thoughts are implementing an graphics api similar to the organelles OSC msgs - as its pretty generic, and would make porting newer. organelle patches easier)

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I am so glad it sits beside it not on or over it. Pd on anything is like a big red button. I am torn though because if I put pd on it I know what will happen but t might be a good thing.

I’d really like to hear conceptually from any of the Norns Street team.

What do you think? Does this counter the norms vision? I know it’s all good but is it propah?

:wink:

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Odd

I cant tell if youre worried about bugs or whether you actually conceptually arent sure the team behind norns “approve” this hack somehow

It’s your device

If bugs are a concern…my understanding is that very little can be done to damage this thing permanently (nothing a hard reset or firmware flash cant fix) so why not dive in?

if monome’s co-sign is what you seek, they always encourage diy projects like this

the device was designed to be modified and hacked however you want

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It’s monome canon. :smile:

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for the past few weeks, one of my norns has been almost completely an orac box :sweat_smile:

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Hei @TheTechnobear any updates/news about Orac/sidekick?

Neither, just being light. I was jokingly asking for a pd v.s supercollider debate.

I know at one point there was a lua interpreter for pd but it looks like technobear has created another cool option!!

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No, these things go in waves…
I do a lot of coding, then I try to spend more time on actual music making :wink:

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sidekick is installed on factory norns and working. Got a vnc server installed as well, and I am connecting to it successfully from the client. But I’m not getting a pd window when I run an orac patch. Did I misunderstand how that works?

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No you won’t get pd coming up with orac, as that’s done slightly differently.
However it will work with one of the demo Pd patches. ( links in op)

note: orac could be made to run directly, just a matter of copy/link to source - but wouls require mec to be started manually - hence the current approach.