#301

OK, after more thought, I think I know why I don’t like the term ‘current scale’. It’s because at any given time Orca has either one or two ‘active’ scales - those chosen for CV A and CV B. ‘Current’ seems too similar a term to ‘active’ to me and I think maybe even something rather clunky like ‘last selected’ might make the language simpler, as we know that the only scale that can be edited on the edit scale page would be the ‘last selected’ one.
I know this might seem petty/picky… but I did really struggle with the scale page as it is with the current documentation and methodology. I do understand things, now, though, and can definitely work with what is there.
I see huge potential in the shared scales, given that they can be text edited. They make great starting points. One of the aspects of Orca that I see as offering potentially unique musical possibilities, is the option to work with custom scales. I can see how having the CV A and CV B scales different would make little sense if one was set to Lydian and the other to Persian, as there is a good chance for horrible clashes. However if one took, for example, a C minor scale, and it’s variants, over the 16 notes certain octaves would have D, Bb, Ab, and others wouldn’t. One C minor variation chosen by CV A and other chosen by CV B could create complex but harmonious music.

2 Likes
#302

i have to say that writing manuals and making videos is the most difficult and time consuming part of creating a firmware. i’d rather write 3 more alternative firmwares than to document one… at this point it would not be a stretch at all to say that writing the manual, making the videos, then updating both for new additions, then updating the manual again to make the terminology consistent throughout took me longer than writing the actual code. there was a significant effort put into making sure the terminology is consistent everywhere.

i think the best option at this point is to separate the page for choosing scales, and change it so that pressing on scale presets and shared scales will not load them into the last selected user scale, you will need to press and hold the source and then press the destination to do so. this will remove the need to have the concept of the last selected scale. what this means for editing is that it will not open the last selected scale but whatever scale you were editing before, and then you switch between A and B by pressing in the CV track assignment area.

4 Likes
#303

as mentioned, i’m planning to start working on new version of orca soon (in a month or two). i’d like to start a discussion on what should be added or changed - any comments / suggestions will be much appreciated! not everything will be implemented (and some suggestions might be mutually exclusive as different people use it in different ways) but hopefully we can come up with some good ideas.

here is what i’m planning on so far:

  • update randomization page to provide more control over what gets randomized and to what extent
  • add 4 more pages (so the page selection block will become 4x4)
  • separate scale selection into its own page, change button combo for selecting scale presets and eliminate the “currently selected scale” concept
  • change the button shortcut for CV preview - the way it works now makes it too easy to accidentally turn it on
  • a lot more teletype commands!

as there will be more pages available some entirely new functionality could be added, or perhaps they should be used to split some of the pages that feel too crowded right now (trigger settings / track weights page in particular).

another vague notion i have is somehow bringing the more playable aspects of orca to the front while hiding or removing things that are maybe not so useful - say, do people use trigger settings that much? i particularly like the rotate features, it’d be nice to somehow provide controls for those in addition to having rotate sequencers.

4 Likes
#304

I think if the changes discussed above are made to the scale selection methodology then the Scale part of Orca is basically fine. I’ve spent some time on the scale edit page and I like it, it is logical, and pretty simple. Maybe in the manual if we find a way to make it clear that scales are more like note arrays, to be clear that they don’t need to start low and get higher… they can do pretty much anything in the 0 - 5 octave range, then all will be as it should be.

The only thing I see that seems not to work is this -
‘Starting with v2.6 you can also shift (rotate) the whole scale up or down by pressing on any button in the 4x4 block and then pressing the button to the right and up to shift it up, or to the left and down to shift it down. This is similar to what the rotate scale sequencer does.’

Isn’t that exactly the same method used for transposing rows? I would like to access that function. Maybe it needs its own page?

The transpose rows function is great and it got me wondering if a ‘transpose the the whole scale/array’ function might be possible. I wonder if a 3rd page, accessed by another press of the scale page key could access ‘transpose scale’ mode? All 16 keys in the square would be lit to show that they were all chosen ready to transpose, and the same method for transposing rows would apply.

Scale editing using Arc is too fussy and too difficult to my mind. I would suggest that Arc only selects and rotates scales. I think this is fine because we now have USB access to the user scales and they can be edited, or completely re-written using the text file, and then re-loaded.

To make this discussion as clear and simple as possible, I will try to make one post per page/function, rather than addressing multiple issues.

#305

Presets.
This a great system. I would change nothing in the Grid implementation. However, accessing 64 presets with a single Arc dial isn’t ideal, IMHO. I would suggest a 2 dial system with one choosing bank, and the other preset.

1 Like
#306

Rotate Scale - this is fine but I think it could be improved - a different seq for CV A and CV B could be great (even if they use the same scale - could Orca do that?). Also could the sequence length be edited? I would like that.

Rotate weights - could the sequence length be edited?

Mutate Sequence - for what it’s worth, this isn’t very interesting to me. I would prefer if the Mutate/Randomise page was made more customisable, and I think @scanner_darkly plans something along these lines.

Global Reset - useful but difficult to implement using a single dial on Arcs. Changing from a reset of 9 to one of 15 is simple enough but quickly changing from 9 to 61 isn’t.

Back to work…

#307

Everything else looks near perfect to me, on a Grid. I will make Arc comments later.
The only two things I could think of, to maybe enhance the experience would be -
Add XOR to the logic choices on the trigger / weights page. I like this idea and the 3 stage key lighting as on the trigger/gate key would work here.
Address the idea of modulating gate length. I’m not sure if Orca needs this, it is pretty great as it is, but it’s the only thing not included that i could think of which might offer exciting musical possibilities.

#308

My final (I hope) comment regarding Orca on Grids is that I, personally, don’t have much need for the random / mutate functions… BUT… because the preset system is so excellent, one can duplicate a preset, and then apply random stuff… if it sounds great, great, if not, reset and start again. So I think that there is value in the random / mutate page but I think refining it so that the results could be somewhat predictable is not worth the time and effort. It is fine as is. There are so many options - rotating scales and weights, applying chance to the tracks, etc, to auto-evolve the sequences without involving the random / mutate page that I think we are fine as we are.
I see no need for the mutate sequencer. But that is just me. I’m happy to ignore it if others find value there.

#309

ARC comments

“The 1st page represents the 4 tracks, so you can see how your changes affect them (the selected set/preset is briefly shown and then it switches to showing the tracks again).” This is massively confusing to me. I see no need to display anything other than the change to the edited divisor. The Arc offers a great visual representation of the 4 divisors, but introducing a ‘stutter visual’ between the edit and the visualization ruins the process, for me.

Given the way Orca works with presets, the Arc should be ideal for editing/refining. No need to see the preset, just work with what is current, and then if what is current isn’t OK… Hot Swap - Revert!

At this stage of the discussion, we really should try to see if anyone, at all, is using Orca with Arc, but not with Grid…

#310

I am curious to see what you come up with as a new version. Though I sold my WW and would only be able to use it on Ansible. But I loved the original concept.

Regarding the features I am a bit ambivalent. Last time I played with it was in fall 16 and I might have to get into the videos again for a serious feedback cause I do not remember everything. On the other hand this might already be good hint: I think that I found all features pretty useful but got lost then a bit with the increasing number of pages on one side and the decreasing screen part of the grid on the other side.

I think a bit of the minimalistic core, sharing the general Anisble scales, maybe a bit of the meta-sequencing functions and adding everything else via teletype would be great. I am afraid I can not memorize a 4x4 function page block on the grid and would prefer just two columns (2x4).

When I had a WW I did not have the Arc. Now I would love to use the Arc with Orca. It would make a setup with two Ansibles, each connected to one controller very flexible and playable - program Orca with the help of a Grid and then just play it with the Arc…

#311

getting ready for the synth meet so just a quick note to say i really appreciate such a detailed feedback - i already noted a couple of things that will definitely be included, and this gives me some interesting ideas to consider.

1 Like
#312

I agree that orca is unwieldy at the moment. Too much to memorize. I hate saying it in a way because I love all the functionality, but it seems to tip over the edge of what I can make sense of in 128 unlabeled buttons multiplied by 12 modes.

You know that “rule of sevens” that less experienced ux designers like to throw around as a number of objects we can reasonably hold in working memory, when a designer is attempting to explain cognitive constraints to coworkers? Turns out it’s one of those oversimplifications and fails to take into account a bunch of factors. But without various cognitive supports designed to aid working memory, sometimes the real number is much smaller than seven. (It can also be much larger, with appropriate affordances).

The grid is light on affordance, so numeracy needs to stay on the small end. That’s my $0.02. Don’t spend it all in one place!

#313

That being said, when I hear you playing it, it sounds fantastic. In the hands of a virtuoso, it’s an excellent instrument. Perhaps I am merely expressing frustration at my own ineptitude.

An aside: I wish there was a module with two USB ports so that it would be easier to make interactions that use arc+grid simultaneously. We can use teletype to bridge the gap but I can imagine more immediate behavior from such a coupling.

#314

Is an Ansible version of Orca possible? Is this something that is being worked on?

#315

Orca is not yet on Ansible, and I’m not sure if that’s part of this discussion. @scanner_darkly would be able to answer that.

#316

After reading through the Arc section of the manual and playing around with Orca using Arc (and switching back and forth with Grid), here’s what I think.

The preset sets concept is not for everyone. If I have created a patch using a Grid but want to improvise with it, using Arc, I don’t want to turn a dial and completely lose the framework I’ve created. I like the idea of rotating, and editing on the fly, but personally I don’t want to have to choose from preset sets of divisors and phases. Some people might want that, though.

I think we have to accept that we can’t do everything with Arc, and so I suggest we have it do the things it’s good at - setting and displaying divisors, rotation of scales and weights, choosing presets and scales, NOT editing or creating scales…

Here’s what I propose.

5 pages instead of 4, but all very simple

Page 1 - Divisors 1-4 (displays the tracks only, no back and forth)
Page 2 - Phases 1-4 (displays the tracks only, no back and forth)
Page 3 - Scale A, Scale B, Bank, Preset (same display concept as currently implemented, just splitting presets into banks and presets)
Page 4 - Rotate Scale A, Rotate Scale B, Rotate Weights, Global Reset (same display concept as currently implemented)
Page 5 - Divisor sets, Phase sets, CV A/B sets, Mutate (same display concepts as current page 1)

Knowing what page you’re on isn’t simple. I suggest that each time one hot swaps back to the Arc, it reverts to page 1. Hitting a button a couple of times is no problem if you know where you are.

#317

I think it is somewhat unwieldy, but the 12 basic pages on Grid are pretty well done and after a week or so back using Orca I’m finding the system easier than I expected to retain / memorise. I would probably make a crib page for live performance. I need those type of things for many apps and modules. My brain is old and retains less and less :wink:
I don’t think we should be making it more complex, we should be working towards making it easier to use. That said, if an aspect can be improved by adding one or two extra functions, I think it’s worth it… like adding control of the rotate sequences, for example.

1 Like
#318

I’ve started, or tried to start, I should say, experimenting with saving via USB to text but I have run into problems.

I think it might be related to the 2.6 firmware at Github. When I save a file the heading of the text says Orca 2.4. I thought maybe I’d somehow or other accidentally not loaded 2.6 so I did it again, and there is no change.

I can save to orca_s0.txt, and I can edit and rename as orca.txt on my computer using textedit, but when I start up WW/Orca with the USB drive connected I’m not sure what’s happening but it definitely isn’t loading as I’d expected, Orca runs immediately, the drive shows that the module is accessing it, but nothing changes, when I remove the drive, the preset 1 isn’t the one I edited and the shared scales are not the ones I wrote.

I guess I’ll wait to hear from @scanner_darkly.

#319

i likely forgot to update the version number, but it should work regardless. it’s possible i introduced a bug though, i’ll take a look. can you send me the file?

#320

PM sent with hex file attached. The file says 2.6 if I ‘get info’. The text file header says 2.4.
To be clear, once I’ve renamed / edited the file so it is called orca.txt all I need to do is start up the WW module with the USB drive connected, right? No buttons to push?