Phone suggestions

Is this true for mobile hotspots as well? I’m assuming the carrier knows where it is, just wondering if that info is passed through the app somehow… I guess a VPN would help.

Maybe a bit off-topic, but nonetheless, after lurking around and following the development of the themes (apart from phone suggestions) in this thread I feel that the sentiment that the Copenhagen letter proposes is something that pops up again and again when discussing the future of tech/self-surveillance…

We are all “shapers” of technology as users in some way, how much responsibility is up to the sole individual?

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A common argument – and I’d like to add that this is not meant to bash @lijnenspel but it bothers me that it keeps coming up – when discussing things that are not right is to say: “hey things are bad already, so why bother?”.
I have to say that it’s a bit of a weird argument.
If I have a flu, and hence got a fever, but also have a running nose and throat ache. I will still want to get rid of the running nose and the throat ache despite the fever. Maybe the running nose is not my main problem, but it’s still annoying like hell and if I can get it to stop even just for a bit, all the better.


If I was going to use a medical analogy for privacy and security, I’d probably choose heart disease or cancer, not flu or sniffles.


Isn’t a VPN just passing trust from the ISP to the VPN provider?


At the end of the day, its the little things. I can live without Facebook pretty much altogether. I can go without Twitter on my phone. I have a work phone for email.

But I really want to listen to the next Sound + Process podcast on my way home tonight…


In the legendary Ask Autechre Anything thread on watmm someone asked em rather bleakly what their take was on the issue of surveillance, privacy etc and their response was simply “a necessary phase in human development”

Not that they are an authority on this subject obv but i think they somehow qualify and ya I tend to share a similar sentiment. I mean we are dipping our fingers into things like telepathy and remote viewing.

If we are to collectively evolve as a species…privacy… has to change its form and meaning.


My understanding is both yes and no. Any encrypted service continues to be encrypted but at a higher level. Your ISP can’t view the traffic in real time. The VPN also obscures your location somewhat by tunneling your IP to a server somewhere in the world. If you assume that the VPNs keep logs (even though most claim they don’t), you assume that the ISP scoops your encrypted data in mass, the carrier logs the location of the physical device, then yes, I guess they can retroactively pinpoint your identity and harvest your personal data once the encryption is broken. However, I’m not sure that a 3rd party app can do anything to track you in real time and most likely would ignore the traffic altogether. I’ve heard it said that ISPs typically ignore commercial VPN traffic - not sure its the same for a consumer VPN service. The only thing I’m not sure of is whether any geo-location tagging from the carrier (in this case, say a Verizon hotspot) can be transmitted through the VPN to the 3rd party app accurately.

My understanding is probably flawed somewhat so feel free to correct me.

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Maybe the pendulum swings both ways…

Is there a way to manipulate the invasion of privacy? I mean, give them what they want, right?

I’m imagining a lien server running from my home connected to a handful of proxies and/or VPNs that runs software running google searches, FB queries, amazon queries, and watching Netflix episodes on various virtual machines. All day long. Every day.


If you don’t mind using Chrome…


Yeah… but I didn’t want to sound too dramatic :smiley:

This is an interesting thought, though I think we are leaving out a big part of the equation here. Who is to decide and manage this evolution? Will it be equal for everybody or will it just make privacy into a luxury good, for those who can afford it. Which powers are growing on the removal of “privacy barriers”? I think that’s the big issue at hand.
There’s another point: I remember reading an article about how a Swedish group was able to uncover and basically dismantle a far right organization (IIRC) thanks to how loose privacy rules are in Sweden. It’s great if it works out like that, especially if the loose privacy control is the same for everybody, including for example big coproration’s CEOs and politicians. But it is probably a two sided weapon as well and it can also easily backfire.

Hasn’t this been the case for at least the last 150 years? Industrialization brought with it mass control and surveillance aimed specifically at the workers and vulnerable… it’s been this way even longer for more marginalized and oppressed groups in the west. Not to mention other parts of the world where billions already live in a much deeper surveillance state than we can comprehend here in the west.

This is absolutely worth fighting for, and requires a lot of awareness and trade offs. It’s also worth keeping in mind that it’s already a luxury afforded to those who can opt out, who can be aware, and who can survive without acquiescing.

This is well worth watching on the subject:

“Cyber JimCrow: Virtual Public Housing and Poor Doors in Digital Security & Surveillance”


Probably? If it sends or receives signals, it’s probably going somewhere we someone can do something with it. Whether or not they’re doing something with the data is a different issue.

the evolution is probably in the means and methods. From coercive surveillance, to making you want to be surveilled to making you not even care about it anymore. This said, I totally agree, we have the luxury of being able to opt out, and that’s for sure something to keep in mind.

afaik google is in a constant battle to end your ability to do things like this. that noiszy program may work now, but I assure you they’re on it and trying to figure out a way of preventing anyone from fooling their data mine. it’s even in their search engine’s user agreement / tos now. I used to use an ancient version of this idea called ‘search me not’ that they eventually figured out a way to detect, and it’s been a quiet arms race ever since.

really like the light phone, but it’s more the concept than the actual product. you could probably set up a similar call forwarding thing with any ‘dumb’ phone you had if you wanted to. I mainly use it on tour when my partner and I want to get away from the circus and go on a date or something, someone can still get in touch with us if necessary but the lack of a screen and small size makes me never even think about the fact that I have it on me. kind of a compromise between fully unplugging and being reachable.

Thanks so much for posting this video. His work is the kind of inspiration I needed this morning.

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there is also Blackphone, android with privacy sensibilities.

FaceID comes as AI is getting better at reading your face :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

a couple inane links below, but thank you all for the scale of this conversation. (from the folks who made protonmail) hosted in switzerland, seems legit

i switched to for all searches and haven’t looked back. no ads, no tracking, it’s like some strange utopia.


Our data is literally being farmed. They might as well shorten their language in ToS and just say that.

EDIT: by extension, WE are literally being farmed. At least, in a more cerebral sense.

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