#26

I had a pretty transformative experience at La Monte Young’s Dream House, as I’m sure many of us have. Walking, turning my head, moving slowly or quickly affected the sound and beats around me, which felt sort of like swimming in some kind of thick substance.

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#27

I recently bought a prophet 6, which is my first experience with an aftertouch controller, and the aftertouch is pretty magical to me. Its so rewarding to really dig into the keys and get extra response in modulation. A similar feeling to the expressiveness of an acoustic instrument (such as bending a guitar string), but in the form of a synthesizer. Setting the aftertouch modulation very lightly to pitch makes it feel more organic as it slightly will go out of tune if I push too hard, and makes it feel more human to me.

Another rewarding discovery has been using samplers/granlators on incoming audio, with randomness involved. Three of my favorites:

  • Using Norns/MLR with random patterns and live recording the buffers.
  • Sending stepped random CV to the freeze input of clouds when sending live audio through it.
  • Using Norns/Cheat Codes with random patterns and live recording the buffers.

Put both halves together and you’re in for some expressive/exciting results. As a side note, i remember watching the reveal video for Norns when a xylophone was being live sampled with MLR and then manipulated by touch… Opened up a whole new world for me.

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#28

So much to look into here! Thank you for sharing.

You may be interested in checking out this Max patch I made recently: https://github.com/sgoldburg/Meta-Controller

It allows you to store sets of parameter values, interpolate between these states, and loop the interpolation paths. I borrowed a lot of ideas here from the Octatrack, Polyend Preset, and the Ribn iOS app. My goal was to create a sort of “meta” interface that could map to multiple devices in a setup and enable system-level movement and automation.

Currently the patch interface is built around MIRA objects, but it will accept arbitrary control data input.

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#29

Ouch! I suppose that must be the equivalent of calluses in the Continuum world …

#30

Could you speak to what it is about the Crackle Box that you find rewarding / engaging?

#31

I would be very interested to hear more as well! I’m a singer myself. I haven’t thought about singing enough to put the experience into words as you have, but your points make intuitive sense.

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#32

I’ve always been fascinated by the results people elicit when they start using a sampler as an instrument in itself.

When you resample on the OT, do you find yourself resampling phrases? Layering effects? Something else?

#33

Thank you for bringing this up! I have to admit, I’m totally ignorant when it comes to the world of sound installations, but I know there’s a lot of fascinating work going on in that space. Off to YouTube!

Is there anyone else in the field whose work you’d recommend I look into?

#34

I can only really say I’ve had one revelatory experience like the OP describes and that’s when I got the A198 ribbon controller almost on a whim. It totally transformed how I approach synths. It doesn’t feel any different from an acoustic instrument, with the pitch being fully connected to your touch.

I started making music on the computer without any midi controllers or anything like that. I got inspired to play an instrument aling with my music when I saw Squarepusher play bass, but I chose lapsteel because I liked melodies with slides in them (and probably because I was in my early 20’s and wanted to be different).
Since I’ve deliberately sought instruments out as an adult with the expectation of them being expressive (rather than as a kid being told to pick something up), I’ve never really had as many “wow” moments. Every time I pick up a new instrument and try playing it, it’s awkward and difficult. I can hear potential sometimes but it’s only once I’ve built up skill that I can control the sound to my liking, by the time of which I’m too used to it to be impressed.
Every time you remove a limitation to an instrument you add one more muscle your body isn’t used to being precise with.
I think this is part of why the ribbon works for me, most of the skills I use for it are already from steel guitar or somewhere else.

My current favorite instrument is the pedal steel guitar, which I’ve been playing for almost exactly a year now.
There’s such a difference between sliding between two notes with the bar and moving the same distance with a knee lever. Both are valid but feel so different.
It’s pretty interesting how it’s almost the opposite to a lot of other instruments in what parts of it are difficult. Many instruments make you stretch your hands in awkward ways to make chords, whereas your hands are pretty comfortable for the most part on steel guitar. Your resting position is the same as sitting at a desk, which of course has its drawbacks but you’re not actively supporting the instrument. You are however using your entire body, your legs and feet included, which is pretty uncommon I think.
Sliding the bar around is very smooth and slippery, unlike even other fretless instruments where you still have to get past the pain and probably develop calluses to get good at.

The juxtaposition of this with the “rug burn” comments in this thread is one of several things that still seem immature to me about the current crop of MPE controllers/expressive interfaces. Most of them seem to pick features of common instruments and mash them up in ways that don’t make a ton of sense to me. Why do the ones with continuous so often mark the edges between notes but not the center? It’s the center that’s interesting, not exactly one quartertone off!
Hopefully these opinions aren’t too controversial… I’m not saying these devices don’t sound great or that they don’t help people make great music, I just think this genre of instrument is in its infancy and there’s better to come.

I am generally curious of what the solution would be for a finger touch interface to be as slick as possible, as even my ribbon controller has this problem with friction to an extent. Some kind of coating?
I’ve tried researching this and it’s been hard to find anything that isn’t toxic to the touch or may ruin the device.

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#35

My Linnstrument has never given me rug burn.

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#36

One could easily make the argument that I wasn’t playing it correctly. They probably wouldn’t be wrong, as I literally only played the thing for a few minutes. I’m sure if I actually owned one and put in the time, I’d learn how to play it properly, and have a great time doing it. IMO it feels much better than the seaboard.

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#37

Little bit of both.

What I’ll do is use headphone sends from my mixer to go into either the morphagene or back into the OT and sometimes that ends up meaning I’ll have my reverb and delay cooked into the sample from my efx sends.

I use an oto bam and the make noise mimeophone.

But mainly I find that the octatrack can find new phrases in some of my other sketches or even sometimes full songs.

I typically sample vinyl and when I realized I can treat my own music as I would a record it opened a lot of doors.

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#38

Awesome! Also check out Wekinator, its does something similar (less robust) but with OSC messages. And of course, the [pattr] object in max interpolates between two contiguous presets, sometimes with odd results… maybe you use it in your patch, I haven’t had a chance to look yet but I will!

#39

By “activating your voice”, I meant the process of learning to sing. The first aspect is acquiring the necessary fine muscle control through practice. Then there is the psychological component of learning to accept what you sound like and enjoying it. When these two challenges have been met, you have created an instrument for yourself that sounds like no one else’s instrument.

It’s a far more personal mode of expression than playing any other instrument–and I’ve played many, many different instruments. I have a collectors’ addiction with musical instruments.

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#40

I’ve reached a point with my electronic music where I feel like finding a really natural-to-use MIDI or CV controller would be helpful for me. I have facility with clarinet and guitar, keyboard not so much. Has anyone had good experiences with MIDI wind controllers (like a Yamaha WX5?) or a guitar/MIDI interface?

Alternately, does anyone have a recommendation for adult beginner piano/keyboard playing exercises/courses?

OR has anyone found an alternate controller like a linnstrument or some such opened up their playing/sequencing abilities (coming from a guitar or woodwind background?) Would love to hear about that, too.

Mods, please move this if there’s a more appropriate thread. I couldn’t find one and this seemed like it had discussion that got closest to my question.

#41

After about 10 years of making guitars + pedals back into sounding like modular synthesizers, then 18 months of getting deep and farty with modular, coming back to my parent’s steinway baby grand and realizing that knowing how to play with a piano is much more valuable than knowing how to play it, and that this exquisite library of timbres engrained in our cultural imagination exists in my non-musical parents home in a room with outstanding acoustics.

oh yeah it definitely has a pianodisc midi controller too. more sessions this afternoon if I don’t go too far down this linux rabbithole I’m on.

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#42

i’d say the linnstrument is a really fantastic controller especially if you’re coming from guitar and also want some extra expressivity for digital synths. only issue with it is the cost.

to the OP @goldie, sorry; i will take some time (soon) to write a few more words expanding on each of my posts here. apologies for the drive-by engagment.

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#43

So many things! But I’ll start with one and add more later.
The latest is the ipad and specifically a group of apps that have all come together for me since lockdown.
I was always fascinated with Borderlands and Samplr but really had no way on integrating them with the rest of my workflow. First I found out about AUM and how that can host other apps, functioning essentially as a mixer. Secondly, my Brother Mike Metlay schooled me to all things sync and introduced me to MIDI Link Sync to tie all my clocks together. Now I can sync my modular and recording computer to record to the timelime matching BPM and even recording tempo change automation. Lastly, I just started using Drambo on the ipad and that’s opened me up to creating all the custom sequencing, sampling and any effects chain I could want. Plus it’s so easy and portable to develop something on my tablet any time anywhere.

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#44

An 8 string guitar that sounds like your synths and doesn’t require callouses to play.

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#45

I find this is one of the biggest appeals in being an electronic musician using hardware and may be another reason why many artists truly feel compelled to acquire so many different instruments as you are encouraged to discover new expressions through how your body interfaces with them.

I think i first truly understood this on using my first proper music machine, a Moog Voyager OS where after having been a computer musician who loved programming software synths and getting weird sounds out of them, I discovered how this Moog’s real potential lay where it was making me play those weird sounds and shape them in a intuitive/reactive/communicative manner that was not known within myself when I was in that more sound design/programming minded space of using a keyboard and mouse to navigate a virtual interface on a computer display.

Getting into the material aspects of this yes…It was my first experience of the analog synthesizer. The physicality of a relatively humongous slab of wooden analog synthesizer. The balance and presentation of its parameters, large and smooth analog potentiometers where I could sense that truly infinite resolution and encouraged me to push just how subtle a movement I get out of a given sound. And finally how this all tied into the primary interface of the piano keyboard. Even though I am not a keyboard player I really felt like wow! So THIS is the legacy of the great instrument maker Bob Moog.

And so now more than 10 years later I really think about this a lot.

Ive since realised I love experiencing how the varying interfaces of musical devices influences and shapes musical directions and outcomes.

The excitement to engage with a new musical object and discover for myself the playful possibilities of a given musical interface. There must be a great satisfaction in achieving mastery over a given interface, something I have not known although there is no way to say that with certainty :wink: but it has been humbling when I witness a total noob who has no idea how to play something and just intuitively does it in a way that is totally their own, possibly resulting in a unique expressiveness that is come about purely due to the innocent sense of discovery involved in that early attempt.

If and how one is a able to recognise and retain that special innocent feeling and if a musical instrument can be designed(or has already been?) to give you this experience is another thing that excites me.

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