You can’t necessarily go ‘off-grid’ as much as you can use Micro Timing to get very granular with your notes. You can also, presumably change bpm and ticks per beat within the tracker line like most trackers. This allows for asynchronous music. It would be much like making any other type of ambient music. There are some pretty impressive, non-rhythmic ambient works by tracker enthusiasts such as Aphex Twin and more.

More to your point; literally ALL music made on a computer or a sequencer is on a grid. The only music not is on tape or other physical recording devices. To get off of quantization is on the recording artist.

This looks intriguing, but I’m not convinced yet as compared to the Deluge (making the same type of judgements as @iiii).

I love trackers, I learned how to make music on them back in the late 80’s… my first love you might say. But I can’t say I’ve ever wished I had dedicated tracker hardware, and so far this isn’t convincing me that I’d want this vs Renoise and/or Deluge.

It might be just my workflow, but this feels slower and more geared towards full composition rather than “jamming” or performing like an instrument that I’ve fallen in love with on the Deluge. And as a tracker it’s more limited and awkward that using Renoise on my laptop, which is pretty portable, has a long lasting battery, and can have lots of inputs/outputs with an audio interface.

I’m going to keep watching though, see where it goes … it is intriguing.

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Ah, thanks for bringing the Loopop feature to my attention, @joshuaandrew. I hadn’t realized I was a part of it. Polyend had asked me to submit a piece and so I spent the better part of a day figuring out how to actually make a piece on it.

Although I had been aware of Trackers since maybe the early 2000’s or so, I had never used one because they just looked too cryptic and my first music program was MIDI Paint on an old Mac SE (with no hard drive, just two floppies—one for the system and one for files) so the piano roll goes deep.

So there is a steep learning curve for me with the tracker workflow and it didn’t help that I was using an outdated manual that didn’t yet explain a lot of the functions… that said, it was fun to try and make music on the thing and it seems to be well-designed. As I had said on the Polyend site, physically the thing is great. I love how it feels and the mechanical keys (as @andrewhuang had mentioned) are such a good move. Feels better than Push or my NI keyboard for fast button mashing. But ultimately, I suspect that the Tracker is much more suited to very grid-based music. Like, VERY grid as in drum machine, basically.

Since I don’t really make beats I wanted to see if I could blur the lines of the grid, at least. Which is what I did, mostly. I set the tracks to the max length (128 steps) and just recorded most parts in as a performance using the pads. The Tracker then used microtimings to play it back as I had recorded it. So in that way, it’s a nice MIDI looper. I couldn’t figure out how to get the MIDI input to work so I had to use the small white pads as a chromatic keyboard. They’re not the easiest to use, but I made it work. I look forward to using a keyboard next time or maybe even using eurorack into a CV to MIDI device to get back into my comfort zone. I also look forward to the implementation of scale filters for those pads so I can just mash the pads and have it all be within a chosen harmony.

But basically I just set up a bunch of samples that aren’t one-shots, but instead little 5-10 second excerpts from a bunch of unreleased stuff and works in progress and then structured it into a little sketch of a piece. If you listen closely, the piece is still very much on the grid, it’s just that the samples are what blur those lines. In the end it felt a little like reinventing the wheel just to ride a bike. I feel that if I’m to really let the Tracker shine I’m going to need to embrace the grid, to embrace the essence of the tracker workflow and not swim so much against the current.

What I found most challenging about the Tracker that is in stark contrast to my usual process is that all tracks within a pattern must share the same length. I see now that it is possible, however, to use the Performance mode to select different tracks from different patterns and that is definitely something I’m going to explore.

Because my main approach when making music (similar to yours, @taylor12k if I’m not mistaken) is to use phrases of different lengths that then phase upon one another. In this way, the composition of each part can be fairly simple, yet as the process takes over, complexity grows.

And so not being able to leverage phasing was surprisingly difficult for me. Again, I’m going to look into the Performance mode and see if songforms can be saved when using that approach. I could imagine preparing patterns of different lengths and coming up with some sort of organization that puts certain types of voices on certain tracks so that I could then just go into the Performance mode and improvise in there. That idea feels sort of like using Ableton’s grid mode for improvisation. Prepare things in advance and improvise within those constraints. But really, that’s kind of what goes down with modular processes a lot of the time. It’s not like we’re playing guitars or pianos here.

But yeah, to directly answer your questions, @taylor12k, I suspect that one would need to slow the tempo down to make the most use out of those 128 steps per pattern. Then it could get pretty long and offer more space to really breathe. And then, I wonder at what tempo the microtimings break down. As in, what is the resolution of the microtiming divisions and what does that come out to at Tracker’s slowest tempo? My piece was made leaving the unit on the default 130bpm, and at that tempo, the microtimings seemed seamless (pun intended). Granted, I would have to test the microtimings against a steady pulse to really get a feel for how fine the resolution gets.

But again, I fear that trying to make process music on a Tracker might be swimming against the current.

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My exact concerns — concerns of a person who drifted from trackers and grid based music (quite a few years ago) into modular and as little grid as possible (now).
As a NerdSeq eurorack module user I can say that being able to clock it with rising edges does help a lot — i prefer to use the term sequential stored voltage source when i think of it — and the triggers that clock it can come from any random, chaotic or reactive generator (envelope follower, for example).

Having said that, I still feel like I’m using NerdSeq a bit too often as a very expensive Pressure Points, just storing preset voltages for certain points in the patch in it, recalling them manually. It might need to go soon.

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If it goes anything like the SEQ preorder it will be a lot further out than the advertised “June”.

Microtiming is an adjustable event.

Talking about harptic feedback, I’ve been thinking about using surface transducers in the instrument to let it vibrate while I play it. This may give the instrument a feeling of being acoustic.

In fact, I did it. Tho the main drive behind this is for feedback with a piezo. With proper level adjustment, it has a very sensitive and chaotic eletro-acoustic behaviour.

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i think im going to replace my mpc 2000 with this. im currently using renoise to sequence all my gear right now anyways and i think this thing is beautiful. going to keep my gear to tracker, my emu e64000, and the model:cycles. perfect little setup for techno. really excited about using tracker live with the random fill function. like a little turing machine for any notes or automation on any track!

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Call me crazy, but the sequencer end of things is not first on the list of what I like about this box. It’s the sampling/wavetable/loop UI. I love seeing the waveform big like that and all the functionality of how you record/chop/edit/file management.

Yes, there are limitations: mono, 2 minute max in RAM, no realtime preview of destructive file effects, etc. But the sampling interface seems so much more user friendly for a variety of reasons compared to the Deluge or Blackbox.

Given my experience with the Deluge and Polyend’s own Medusa and apparently every other piece of new gear these days, it feels like it’s only a matter of time until certain shortcomings are remedied by a firmware update.

The tipping point for me will be:
a) Overcoming the 2 minute RAM limitations by switching to read the files directly off the SD card. Deluge had a similar limitation when it was first released and it took them roughly a year to figure out how to do that, so fingers crossed Polyend can figure it out too.
b) External MIDI control of the “instruments” and their parameters, this way I can use other sequencers (in addition it’s tracker) to control it’s sample/synth engine. Props to the Deluge for allowing that.

That way it becomes a capable sampler instrument (admittedly with a beat orientation) that also has this crazy detailed, flexible sequencer. I could even live with the mono files.

Ultimately, I have my ER-301 micro system for all the more wacky sample destruction, multi-grain granular, long form stereo files, asynchronous looping/playback. Excited at the idea of having having a narrowly focused box for beats and chopping samples plus a wavetable synth.

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I agree with this! One thing I’ll add though, is it does have 2 way midi and I think they mention running the synth engines from external gear… I could be wrong, but I saw that at one point.

For me, this will be the box around the house that I use away from the computer. I like Renoise and have been getting more comfortable with it. I have also been sending midi from Renoise in to ableton and then out through my crow to create a NerdSeq style function. This has been a lot of fun! But when I’m in my apartment, the kid is asleep and I have my laptop, OP-1 and OP-Z available to me, I just am a little less enthused. I would love a simple, dedicated box to do my sequencing with… But, who knows!

Another valuable thing to what you mention in regards to firmware updates would be increasing the number of grains from the granular.

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That’s a cool implementation. Is it receiving the audio signal from whatever is mounted in the case?

Using a transducer is a good way to get variable frequency, since most of the shakers that are in our mobile devices have a fixed resonance peak and are pretty useless for providing sufficiently musical feedback.

Nice looking design.

PolyWannaTracker

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Screen Shot 2020-03-26 at 1.36.15 PM

Looks like Mr. RDJ himself will be contributing ideas/tweaks to the software (this was on his soundcloud)

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Yay to RDJ= Aphex? non?

Filling out the Characters more …

sorry… yeah, RDJ = Richard D. James = Aphex Twin

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I’m so curious a) what he’s suggested that might be incorporated in to their software

And b) what the hell he could be working on!!

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The device looks sick, but I’m not sure if the workflow interests me…

What I find intriguing is how cool would it be if it had some sort of user mode, where you could run your own software on it. The hardware looks really nice with the display and the jog wheel, it’s just a shame that were limited to this specific workflow.

Knowing Polyend I wouldn’t be surprised if it were kind of easily hackable. But then it’d be a considerable amount of work to make thoughtful use of such a big screen + intricate interface in a usable way that justifies it. I’m fine with this device being what it is even if it’s niche. No one’s asking Digitakt to be open ended (that I know of). This thing, to me, seems like a direct alternative to a digitakt with a very different workflow and that’s pretty great.

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I honestly cannot be more excited about this device. I find the tracker style of composing much more inspiring than a piano roll. I’m thrilled for some folks to add or subtract some functionality through some alterations, and it’s inspired me to look at the Polyend Poly2 to work in tandem with it instead of a nerdseq. This is especially more my style because I use a teletype as one of my main sequencers and using the Polyend tracker + teletype seems like an insanely flexible system on a rack.

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I recently got a Poly 2 (a day before the shelter-in-place here, which was nice timing). I love it - checks off all the MIDI to CV boxes for me. MPE compatibility; a generous 20 CV outs, 12 of which can be openly configured however you choose; full complement of I/O, including MIDI in, USB host, USB slave, and MIDI out (this can be a nice converter between USB MIDI and DIN MIDI); MIDI CC to CV smoothing, which has worked well for me to get rid of unpleasant aliasing when bringing in LFO and similar data. The best feature though is the screen and on-board UI which allow you to fully configure the module directly from the module itself, and set up presets which you can then load up on the fly. I’m not aware of any other MIDI to CV modules that can do that, and I’ve gotten sick of modules that expect me to work out a configuration on the computer and then stick with that setup indefinitely. Maybe that’s how some people work, but not me. Every session with my modular brings a new use case or idea for how I want to route MIDI, and the Poly 2 is a joy to use because it’s a swiss army knife that can reconfigure as fast as my brain does, in the middle of a session. It’s also one of the prettiest modules in my rack, which simultaneously doesn’t matter at all and matters a lot.

So all that is to say that I’m highly impressed with Polyend’s design choices and very thoughtful interfaces. I don’t ordinarily do preorders, but they’ve earned my trust and excitement. They’re also a company based in Olszytn, very close to where my wife grew up in northeastern Poland, and I laugh thinking about her somewhat rural and remote surroundings being a location for cutting edge and avant garde music/tech/programming/cool. It wouldn’t make anyone’s top 5 cities in Poland for this kind of activity (but maybe it’s there, just under the radar?). I feel like it’s a good cause to support these weirdos who don’t live in any kind of tech or music hub yet are quickly ending up on par with or exceeding the Elektrons of the world.

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