#72

Of course, thank you for being patient.

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#73

does anyone know of this translate in other languages?

in French for example it would be

she/her : elle/elle
he/him : il/lui
they/them : ils/eux or elles/elles -> it’s not grammatically gender-neutral

#74

Or “all y’all” for emphasis :slight_smile:

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#75

I’ve been working on breaking from ‘you guys’ as a teacher and I’m finding it’s a very hard habit to break. Just have to keep at it.

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#77

As a politically queer, cishet male would it be inappropriate of me to go by they/them in a show of solidarity for all-inclusive pronoun standards? I refer to my cishet female partner as partner or spouse for this reason visavis sexual preferences
Im just not sure about gender


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#78

I have seen bro and dude used by women to refer to other women.

“Bro/Dude, that dress is amazing on you!”

I like it. It weakens machismo.

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#79

I think it’s better to just normalize the listing of pronouns than to use they/them as a gesture of solidarity.

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#80

Ok. So you feel it’s important that gendered pronouns exist and are followed as opposed to English integrating a non-gendered pronoun a la Hungarian, Finnish etc?

#81

The English language has changed over the last 1,000 years and will continue to change - it’s even changed in my lifetime. No reason for “proper grammar” to impede progress, language is a tool we shape for our use.

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#82

I just want to say how much I wish I could hang out with all of you in real life and call each of you by your name. You all deserve to be seen as you are and accepted exactly as you are, and that’s pretty cool. Thank you for being patient with this old guy as he tries hard to not screw up.

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#83

I would love some theory on why its so important for people to feel validated in all spheres of society. I feel like its not something worth my attention. I feel like I am not validated in many social and artistic scenarios and ive learned that it doesnt really matter to me anymore
not in a I give up but more a yeah whatever kinda scene. I just do not find it useful. Nor the point of existence.

#84

In the long term, no gendered pronouns aren’t necessary. And steps toward that may, in the abstract, be good. But I’m more concerned about protecting and validating people’s current identities. And too that end, normalizing checking people’s pronouns is more effective than ignoring them.

When I was early in my transition, getting they/them instead of she/her still felt like misgendering. It was less wrong, but still wrong. These days I wouldn’t mind it, though I still don’t prefer it.

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#85

I think if such a pronoun were to emerge then one could feasibly adopt it, but to assume they/them as a gesture of solidarity if that doesn’t reflect how you actually feel about yourself is a bit odd. While certain “radical” queer sects do want to abolish notions of gender, that is generally not the case. This is more speaking in individualistic terms. Probably irrelevant to the thread, but I’m curious as to what you mean by “politically queer”? Feel free to ignore and drop it or take to it to DM if you’re not comfortable discussing publicly, never heard that before :slight_smile:

edit: while I was writing this, @Calytrix beat me to it.

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#86

I feel that. Ok.

Yeah. Which is why i asked.

Just that my personal politics align with LGTBQI+ politics while being straight cishet male.

#87

It might not be validation, but civility. You don’t ‘need’ a friendly warm greeting when meeting people?

It’s about offensive and hurtful language. Society always evolves, and language with it. Words only mean what a big group of people say they mean, it’s not an exact science.

I’m speculating here, but it might be that it does matter that you are ‘validated’ or excepted, part of the group. Every person feels that need. To me personal connection is exactly the point of existence. It is the most real and deepest experience in life.

I’ve been bitter about the world and society. But I learned I was wrong about people and that there is always a way to connect with anyone. I also learned what my own role was in someways not fitting in and my behavior. Still learning that. To be genuine and forthright, while not being afraid of disaproval. Or judging people for being disaproving.

You can be your true self and still find a point of contact with anyone. I should be generous and genuine and there is not a healthy person out there who does not react well to friendliness.

If they aren’t that social, don’t take it to heart. If they are hurtful, let the hurt come in and then let it go. It hurts but it doesn’t have to linger. But we absolutely should care about including people and not being antisocial. My personal experience.

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#88

My situation as well
 plus I find much of the cishet male (and white, to boot) privileged and often clueless worldview to be repugnant


Trying to take small steps to listen, learn and be loving


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#89

Honestly ive developed quite a prejudice of them. Constantly disappointing.

#90

As a non native english speaker, (while I got the he/him-she/her thing) I honestly struggle to understand why a single individual (1 person) has to be called “they” (many people). :thinking:

For sure it’s my fault and I will call everyone whatever way you/she/he/they will prefer. :blush:

Italian language it’s very problematic in this camp, because here we use the female pronouns (Lei=she) when talking with another people (male or female) outside of our family and friends group:

<< Anche lei sta aspettando il treno?>>
<< Is she waiting the train too?>>
(“She” it’s “you”, ok? :sweat_smile:)
It’s an educated way of talk to anyone.**

For making things more difficult,
here also inanimate things “got a specific gender”:

  • Il tavolo (the table) it’s male, as “il” is a male pronoun.
  • La bottiglia (the bottle) it’s female, as “la” is a female pronoun

:grimacing:

IMO a neutral evolution of the language it’s preferable,
but in the meantime, as I previously wrote,
I will call you all using the pronouns which you feel right for you!

Sorry for the derail!

Much love to all of you!

**Curiosity:
During the 30s “Lei-She” was dismissed in favour of “Voi-plural you”,
because the latter was more virile and so considered better for the fascist people.

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#91

My partner speaks Portugese. The genderation of Latin languages is unbelievably problematic to the point it hurts to think about it.

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#92

I mean get all that sure
but now its I want my “preferred” pronoun or else I will feel invalidated or general bad vibes. I perceive that stemming out of the exponential complexifying of egotistical projection. Mostly arising out of western english speaking society thereby taking effect in other colonised mentalities. Which is what it is being the era we are living in and at my discretion to choose to engage with it as per the others expectation.

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