Quitting MW/Reddit/FB/Social Media

#371

Ha! It’s funny to think back to that kind of thing having currency of some sort. In those days I was involved in all the scratching forums with my main general music posting being on label forums (Ninja Tune, Mo’Wax, Def Jux, Ozone Entertainment) or artist sites (Controller7 was basically the Bully Records forum). I remember when the Warp forum closed. The notion of that being significant seemed odd at the time, but it was.

I remember when it started to dawn on people that a stupendously high post count was as much a condemnation of a life mis-spent as a signifier of perceived hierarchy.

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#372

All i can say abt this is quoting geoff barrow ‚FOR WHEN, MO‘WAX THE MUSICAL?‘ funny/depressing at the same time, no?

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#373

The name is both a consequence of, and an indicator of, the cultural mindset behind the site. It is what a certain infamous TV celebrity / real estate con man called “locker-room talk”, not just vulgar but intentionally exclusionary. My memory of locker rooms is one of foul-smelling, awkward, tense places that made me hate gym class worse than I already did.

A good point. While several module brands maintain some presence there, as do some YouTubers, in a lot of cases it seems reluctant or minimal – and prominent artists in the community are staying away in droves.

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#375

Ha! There’s an extent to which I’m a bit embarrassed at how much I dug that label at the time. In retrospect I bought a lot of records with average music but great sleeves. Fortunately the resale value was good on most of them!

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#376

Just in case anyone needed more evidence

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#377

You’re right.

Mike has this stupid idea that censoring political speech somehow allows the site to work better. He is so fucking right wing and bubbled up as to not realize that that is the most conservative stance you could ever hold and that status-quo bias is a political position of immense proportions.

I’ve ranted a few times about the name and how it would be fairly simple of mike to lock down the site, and relaunch under a less misogynistic name. It would also allow him to implement a proper forum back-end instead of that trash system from 1995. He refuses to, even though I’m sure you could muster up 10 volunteers that would make doing all of that a breeze.

I try to just lurk these days. B/S/T is good there; but engaging people who think that being apolitical has ever been a possibility while under gag rule is not much different than talking about synths with my beagle.

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#378

I avoid MW altogether because, while I may be comfortable with just “lurking there”, my ability to lurk is indicative of the privilege I have as someone who is a cisgendered white male. I am sure many will disagree with this, but the reality is that I find MW absurd because of how it alienates people in the community, and how abusive users and moderators are in their steadfast hold on not censoring blatant misogyny and “off color jokes”, among other things. However, because of who I am and my inherent privilege, I don’t feel personally attacked by attitudes there (though I must say that as a human, I am disturbed by the adherence to a position that is literally hurting people and keeping them marginalized in the greater community). I think the problem is that folks cannot seem to imagine that someone else may find the attitudes there incredibly hurtful and unsafe, and that because they cannot imagine this, anyone who disagrees is wrong and should pipe down.

Also, I’ve just got to say for my own catharsis, MW is literally one of the worst names the second being Gears****. I can’t even bring myself to type their names.

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#379

Anecdotally, I just posted on MW in one of the rare circumstances that I take a look at the site and decide it would be worth saying anything. I only ever read the Serge/Buchla forum occasionally for technique and DIY tips. I saw someone asking about the Serge jack colour scheme, so I posted what I thought was a kind and helpful reply. Some other member immediately replied to my post in an angry tone and continued to do so later in the thread, for no reason that I can imagine. So I’m done now, probably won’t even go back there at all unless a search takes me there as the only source of info on something. Yech, good riddance.

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#380

Getting banned–IP address banned–from Muffs was a real blessing and has saved me a lot of irritation over the years. I highly recommend it to everyone: all you have to do is point out the abusive behavior of the forum owner (back when he used to be on the forum) and the conduct of some of the less ethical vendors.

I am too much of a gentleman to publish the unhinged emails I got from Mike. It certainly makes me appreciate forums like this one. :slight_smile:

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#381

I think Apple was certainly in the right here. Facebook broke the rules. However, we as customers should be alarmed as well by what Apple did. Apple controls how you use your phone and they control the code that runs on it. This incident enforces that idea.

You don’t own your iPhone, you rent it. That is something I just can’t abide.

Fortunately there are companies doing something about that, and standing up for our digital rights.

Also for anyone looking to ditch FB, the federation is an excellent solution. Mastodon, Plemora, etc. are all fantastic platforms that allow you to control all aspects of your data, and even self host it.

As for MW, while I can agree with most of the sentiment here about the toxicity of that place let’s all just remember that it is a privately owned site (despite the crowd funding) and they are legally allowed to moderate it however they please. You don’t want that right infringed on. Just don’t patron there, that is the best solution that ensures your freedoms aren’t affected either. Welcome to a free society. You can’t have the good without having to deal with the bad.

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#382

I’m still participating in MW, and on KvR. I’m playing whack-a-mole with the ignore button on some users and with uBlock on some profile photos. I’m doing slightly, gradually better at not responding to garbage fire threads and trollish users, but sometimes I fail. I need to remember not to wade into the sewer just to wipe a smudge off the wall :laughing:

Distancing myself from Facebook wasn’t as hard as I thought, really. I still occasionally get an urge to complain about something, comment on the weather, or share a news link in that low-value social media sort of way – but it passes.

That makes me suspect I could drop off MW just by logging out and breaking the basic habit. With NAMM for instance, I don’t think I would have missed any important announcements. If I remember right, it’s still searchable without logging in, and I’d still get (somewhat delayed) notifications if someone wants to buy my stuff in B/S/T. I’ll have to think about this.

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#383

Having kids pretty much made me not want social media in my life. I had deleted my FB account a couple of times; 1) Once because I was young and tired of it all 2) Another time because I was becoming a classroom teacher and didn’t want anything to bite me in the end 3) Finally, I deleted it a third time because I just wasn’t using it and felt it was weird to be eavesdropping on all these people I no longer talk to.

A few months ago I deleted Instagram, and that’s been the final one for me. Now it’s just forums/reddit and email…I would like to get back onto Instagram to document my music making stuff, but I’m in no hurry.

I’ll do a quick PROS / CONS list here

PROS

  1. Less distractions
  2. No awkward family dynamic when I have to view weird political posts that I strongly disagree with.
  3. No awkward friend dynamic when I have to view weird antivax posts that I strongly disagree with.
  4. I no longer get that urge to check my silly ass stream.
  5. I don’t have to be bothered with what’s happening in other people’s lives (thus allowing more focus on my own / those around me).
  6. I’m no longer part of Facebook’s ecosystem, and that feels good.

CONS

  1. I do miss some of the music communities I was part of on FB, though they weren’t that busy.
  2. Losing the ability to connect with old friends/family, but again, would I even if I had the chance?

So that’s that, it’s been a breath of fresh air and has offered a lot opportunity to focus on the things I care more about.

@Starthief what threads do you follow on either Muff or KvR?

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#384

These are my biggest reasons for staying on FB. But, I agree with your points on both. Time to rethink FB once again.

I do enjoy Instagram (for now). A lot of creative people showing snippets of their work keeps me coming back. Although, I am getting tired of the ads displaying every 4 posts.

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#385

On MW I check the Eurorack Modules section for whatever threads get my attention, and General Modular and General Gear a bit less frequently.

On KvR mostly I skim the Instruments and Effects sections to see if there’s something new, and the Hardware section. I glance over “Everything Else (Music Releated)” but I’m trying to get involved with it less

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#386
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#387

Post from Nils Frahm today:

Dear friends,

This page is soon not going to be active anymore. After giving it serious thought, I have concluded that Facebook will be the first of many social media accounts I am going to close.

Facebook et. al. have become unwanted companions in my life, despite the opportunity they are giving me to promote my music. Followers on facebook work as a new kind of currency today, but I find the political and moral costs that come with it too steep to stay in the game. This game starts with seeing you and me as currency, and goes on with trading something so intimate as music and human emotions in a digital market that benefits only the few. The picture repeatedly drawn to me is one where I cannot afford to leave Facebook because of the access to fans it represents. It feels like I’m being held hostage by a force out of my control.

I am no longer willing to give in to such perverse arguments – rather, I want to imagine and construct a world where people like you and I find a different way of interacting with each other, without laptops on our knees or smartphones in our hands. I want to thank you for your loyalty through my music, my concerts, and the many encounters with you all over the world…not via platforms that monopolize our communication and commodify our ways of being in the world.

Many conversations with friends in the last couple of months have supported me to make this move, and I was relieved to learn how many people around me feel the same urgency to end our dependency of social media platforms in particular and the internet in general. While these concerns are shared by many, acting upon them seems to be much more difficult. I would like to inspire you that in fact, it is quite easy: all we need to do is practice what we preach.

If anything, I hope that my absence in this space will enhance my presence in the world out there. That is where you will always find me.

Sincerely,

nils


I commented about how much I respect the decision and agree with the sentiments, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t owe a majority of my success at the moment to the exposure that Instagram has provided me. Nils is certainly at a level of sucess where he can afford to cut ties with social media with probably no discernible loss, but I’m not sure I can say the same for myself. After all, he has a manager and international booking agents working for him, relationships with venues, etc. etc. and I don’t. I don’t necessarily believe that a small-but-growing artist NEEDS social media, but it can certainly help get the ball rolling, which is the most important part. In particular for someone like me who currently lives in the suburbs, basically all of my presence is online. I owe a record deal, sold-out tapes, and many booked shows to connections that happened as a result of Instagram, hard to believe such things could have happened so quickly without some of the lucky breaks I got on that platform. I also don’t believe that these platforms have to be inherently negative or intrusive into someone’s life, it’s just that they seem to trend that way if you aren’t careful about how you use them. I dunno.

Definitely something to think about.

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#388

Thanks for this! I just signed up.

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#389

I could not have said it better myself. I was mainly lurking/a very infrequent poster, but I saw a post so egregiously sexist I had to call it out. The ferocity with which I was trolled made me lose all desire to ever log in there again - as others have alluded to, it reminded me of being bullied in grade school.

I’m really happy I found this site.

with social media, I deleted Facebook about 6 years ago and Instagram about a year ago, and it feels fantastic. It’s a very lonely and socially isolating stance sometimes, but the signal to noise ratio of my life has improved dramatically.

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#390

You see he is on to something, but his biggest beef is that the misuse of privacy is the problem not being in touch with people.

So yes ditch FB, but social media needs to not be evil. Look at Mastodon, for instance. Self hosted, federated net works. You own your data, and set who gets to see it, YOU decide who you are friends with and what populates your feed. (And everything that does is in chronological order, who knew it could be that easy.) No ads, no exploitation.

Social media can do a lot of good, so long as the network isn’t being used for exploitation.

I also think companies like Mewe who make money off of offering legitimate storage solutions and respect your privacy are good alternatives.

I had someone tell me not to delete my FB account because it could hurt me when hunting for a job down the line. I told them I’d have a LOT of material from my mastodon instance they could see, and that frankly if that bars me from a job, it’s probably better I don’t work there. We’ll see if that is my attitude come time to look for a new job.

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#391

I’ve read a few of the posts pertaining to MW on this thread and being a member in both forums all I want to say is that MW has been around for a decade and is currently at 44k registered members. Whether it’s handling it well or not I leave for others to continue to criticize. My point, if I have one, is good luck when hitting such numbers with moderation and community spirit and the rest. MW used to be a really nice place with a really nice vibe and the nicest of people to hang out with. I’ve met a few in real life and I’m lucky to have made actual friends there. Lines reminds me of those good times in MW.

I’m not going to defend or oppose MW, but there are a lot of assumptions in some posts above which, frankly speaking, is saddening. This thread is also kinda saddening in a rather excellent forum (I’m new, obviously, but the original and other parts of this thread that dis on other forumites are very far from the spirit that I’ve seen in other threads here. I could be wrong of course). It’s easy to criticize I guess.

Have a great weekend everyone.

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