I do wanna hold out for a hope that an online community the size of my hometown can feel as respectful to others. I agree that part of the problem with MW is about scale and the Eternal September effect, but I think it’s fair to point out where it is falling short – especially from the perspective of “this took a toll on me” – and to dream for better
Silence doesn’t really serve to support marginalized people.
I haven’t read all of the comments regarding MW, so I may be out of line; but to reduce them to disses seems to invalidate legitimate feelings in the interest of “tolerance for intolerance.”
I agree, It’s certainly laudable in a lot of respects. But, I think it’s comparatively easy for someone as successful and established as him to go off grid. It’s a choice that for others is not so straightforward I think.
I would rather not be on social media at all, but similarly to you I do depend on it to a degree. This is the creative economy that we exist in, and despite the (significant) drawbacks, it facilitates the communication of ideas on a level and in a way that would have been unthinkable in the past. As I said, I have a lot of misgivings about it generally, and specifically about how it relates to and affects people’s ideas about the value of work when there is an overload of content coming at them from every which way…but. I still feel I wouldn’t be able to do what I do without it.
I saw people identifying specific examples of toxic behavior. If we don’t point out examples, we’re not arguing based on evidence, so I don’t know what else could have been said. The fact there are still people who aren’t able to see the highly toxic atmosphere of MW just underscores the need for evidence-based posts. But if there are more tactful ways to handle this without making it all seem like a “dis”, please suggest them!
Anyway, I’m sorry that these discussions are merely saddening to you, rather than opportunities to learn and broaden your own perspective.
What’s saddening to me, however, is never being able to share my music through so-called “normal” channels because of deep-seated connections to other communities (via collaborations or otherwise) which lead to the inevitable attacks, and the inevitable silence and lack of support.
What’s saddening is living a life of underground as in railroad, not underground as in cool, with closed communities, secret handshakes, and don’t talk about fight club. To know that what you do really may never see the light, that it will persist only in the realm of the never-was, the absent realm of the future that did not take place.
What’s saddening is well-meaning people wanting to separate the work from the person, as if something like that would ever be possible.
What’s saddening is well-meaning people who should know better, complaining that there are no subcultures today. This attitude not only denies our existence, it mocks the very idea of subculture, as if it were simply being “cool”, a happy situation, rather than a simple matter of survival. It trivializes the real reasons things actually remain underground.
What’s saddening is always having to start from zero when explaining these things, always lacking the kind of tacit understanding that inheres in the very concept of community.
I’m happy you don’t face any of this, and that you’ve found friends and a supportive community. But I do hope you’ll someday find compassion for those who do face these challenges, those who historically have made so much of this music and technology possible. Sure, you weren’t there for them in the 1970’s. You enjoy the fruits but forget who planted the seeds. This pattern is well known and replicates in all instances of gentrification whether physical, intellectual or otherwise. But why not be there for us today? We ain’t “cool”, we’re just like you in fact… we just want to move forward a bit more openly, with fewer challenges and a lot less pain.
I agree. Calling out the behaviour(s) in question needs making no apology whatsoever. Such explanation is beyond generous already.
More evidence of how rotten it is:
Oldie but goodie:
This also from the same page that you posted:
“This is America, 2019: A secret trial against a source for refusing to testify against a journalist”
Chelsea remains resolute even after all that has happened …
Was looking for this very article the other day, thanks a lot for sharing!
A really nice slightly academic article about reductionism in social platforms and technology in general:
Users are not only making their online personas with the reference points of a far reduced set of criteria, they are also creating their identities in this environment. People "make their social and cultural worlds at the same time these worlds make them,” with serious implications as they devote more time in virtual worlds with thin personas.
Recently saw this, weirdly enough on youtube.
Quite a few of us, including myself, have years of experience and thousands of posts on MW, going back to the alleged Good Olde Days (I created an account in 2011 after lurking for a year or two, for instance …), so I don’t think it’s quite correct to say that we are making assumptions.
Moreover, some of us are veterans of online communities going back to the 80s (myself, as an adult on BBSs) or even before. We have some perspective.
Lines has a fairly high signal to noise ratio thus far, so at least one large and growing community can foster civil discussions among people who might not agree on everything.
Yup. A good example is the Democracy thread. In 99.5% of boards, that thread would have turned into a dumpster fire after 20 posts or so. The thread leans progressive/liberal, but there’s a couple of moderates/libertarians posting and we aren’t getting being run out of town with Pitchforks. I wish lines’ civil behavior were the norm elsewhere in the internet.
i think we all have a lot to learn and in my opinion lines is THE most amazingly important example of life long learning i have ever seen
quit all sites now and embrace whats right for yourself as an individual
Lines for universe domination
music is my life…
I’ve found it much easier to keep an account on our favorite social media websites but remove as much information as possible so the algorithms present the content in an incredibly boring way. Then it won’t be as fun to use for entertainment.
I did this with facebook and now my notifications are all for ciat-lonbarde synth groups and local music events.
As a “liberal/progressive” I want to engage in thoughtful and friendly exchanges with smart people who hold different views. That’s how I learn things I don’t already know…
I’ve found that there is a lot of listening going on in here, which I would like to attribute to the predominance of experimental leaning musicians in here. Listening comes with the turf…
that’s exactly what Tim Berners-Lee tries to promote with the recent launch of https://contractfortheweb.org/ :
feels very much like the way lines is working to be. Which at the same time is heartwarming and feeling a bit hopeless given the ratio of lines’ posts / every comment thread on every publication on YT/fb/media sites. But let’s say that’s an exaggeration and i feel optimistic today ^^.
now I know why my old bands myspace music player no longer worked when I last dug it up… this is just incredible
thanks for that! i had one track on myspace that i loved and i always hoped to record or get a file of it as the computer i made it on crashed long ago. good to at least know i can keep remembering it fondly.
Bummer. There goes my rap group from 2005-2008’s hopes and dreams of getting discovered
Oddly enough, the track lengths still display.