#49

Swing is the alternate lengthening and shortening of each beat. Here is a piece of music using straight eighth notes, meaning that all of the eighth notes are of equal lengths:

Here’s the same piece of music played using swing. Within each pair of eighth notes, the first one is stretched to about twice its length, and the second is pushed to about half its length:

The degree of swing (the swing or shuffle knob on a drum machine or DAW) refers to the degree to which the first beat in the pair is lengthened (and the second one in the pair is correspondingly shortened.) At zero percent swing, the beats are of equal length, like in Tchaikovsky. At maximum swing, the first beat is double its usual length, like in Duke Ellington.

There’s one further complexity: in the jazz era, swing was applied at the eighth note level. However, starting in about 1960, it became more common to swing your sixteenth notes instead. Read more about that here: http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2015/the-great-cut-time-shift/

In DAWs like Ableton and Logic, you have the choice to swing your 8ths or your 16ths.

To visualize swing, you can use the Groove Pizza. As you adjust the swing slider, you can see the slices get alternately wider and narrower. You can think of the slices as being eighth notes or sixteenth notes, depending on the style of beat that you’re making. http://musedlab.org/groovepizza

3 Likes
#50

I’ve been experimenting since I posted that; I kinda get it now, and I also really appreciate the through and helpful reply. :pray::black_heart:

#51

Stravinsky and his Harmony - some interesting analysis here

1 Like
#52

Does anyone have any good resources for math formulas/algorithms to assist with coding based on music theory principles? I thought about starting a separate topic for this, but perhaps it could just live here.

I ask because last night I was struggling with solving a problem in Lua, which can be described as:

“for a major scale defined in integers ‘0, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11…’, write a function which takes a note n and an interval i, and returns a new note at that interval relative to n.” I couldn’t just rely on a hardcoded scale table because I wanted it to be dynamic and work for any note/octave/degree in the scale.

Eventually I came up with this, which seems to work 
-- assumes major scale that starts at 0

local semitones = {2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1}

function findScaleDegree(note)
  if note == 0 then return 1 end
  local sum = 0
  while true do
    for i=1,#semitones do
      sum = sum + semitones[i]
      if sum == note then return i + 1 end
      if sum > note then return 'note not in scale' end
    end
  end
end

function findIntervalNote(startNote, interval)
  local degree = findScaleDegree(startNote)
  local intervalNote = startNote
  for i=0,interval-2 do
    local position = (i + degree - 1) % #semitones + 1
    intervalNote = intervalNote + semitones[position]
  end
  return intervalNote
end

-- examples
print(findIntervalNote(0, 7)) -- 11
print(findIntervalNote(2, 3)) -- 5
print(findIntervalNote(4, 9)) -- 17

I’m obviously not the first person to do this, but it also made me realize that I don’t really have any good resources for simple music theory formulas/algorithms, other than wikipedia or digging through other people’s code (which is of course a great resource as well).

The musicutil.lua library in norns is one good reference that I know of.

#53

There is a book by W A Mathieu called Harmonic Experience that is fantastic for understanding harmony.

The book is rooted in experiencing the sounds of harmony. He starts by teaching a method for learning to sing just intonation against a drone. The resonances of pure tunings against a drone are intuitive and very physical. There is a unique feeling of each resonance you experience for each harmonic combination. He starts with unison, then the octave, then the fifth, the the third and so on up the harmonic series. From this starting point he shows where and why equal temperament tuning differs from just intonation.

The resonances of just tuning seem to me to be intuitive and non culturally specific. I think everyone, with a little guidance and practice, can feel when two pitches are exactly an octave apart.

2 Likes
#54

The danger of that book is that if you take it seriously and do all the singing exercises, you’ll get addicted to singing with a drone and never feel the need for harmony ever again. I never even made it past the first half.

#55

Sticking with just a drone and pure intonation works for a lot of musics around the world. Modulation and the genius and compromises of equal temperament are a big part of the book. It makes more sense to me to start with just intonation since that is how harmony in the natural world works.

#56

Hi there, I’m First Nations (stō:ló) and sing for a few groups in the city I live in. I’ve been learning a Tlingit song for the last few weeks that’s been insanely hard because the beat is so wild to me, I was wondering if anyone could take a listen and tell me what the time signature is? Or what about it is giving me such a hard time? Thanks! It’s a Tlingit peace dance - not to be shared Imitated or sampled please. I like to share my culture and really enjoy hearing how some features of the music can or cannot be interpreted with western music theory
Thanks again, looking forward to hearing from someone! (I mess up on the last verse I think) Tlingit peace dance|audio

6 Likes
#57

Hey! I think I’ve transcribed it correctly below as a series of pulses and rests, all the same duration (some pulses have more than one syllable sung during them, but hopefully this notation is somewhat clear). As someone who doesn’t speak the language, I may have broken the lines in places that don’t feel right; my apologies. Feel free to shuffle around my line-breaks and re-analyze if you’d like! It’s also a bit tricky as the first and fifth verses match, the second and third match each other and almost match the first/fifth, and the fourth one is rather different (it also sounds like the fourth verse is partially in English, and the meter was adjusted to fit the new words)

Anyway, the first and fifth verses I’d say are 2 bars of 7/8, a bar of 6/8, a bar of 4/4, a bar of 9/8, and a bar of 7/8. The second and third verses are similar, but rather than that 3rd bar of 6/8, it’s a bar of 9/8 (so: 7/8, 7/8, 9/8, 4/4, 9/8, 7/8). The fourth verse is 3 bars of 4/4, a bar of 2/8+4/4, then ends on 9/8 then 7/8 like the other verses.

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1.1.1.1.
11.1.1.1.
1111.1.

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1.1.1.1.
11.1.1.1.
1111.1.

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111.1.1.1.
11.1.1.1.
1111.1.

1111.1.
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1.1.1.1.
11.1.1.1.
1111.1.

1111.
11 Likes
#58

this is awesome! thank you so much for your info - i never learned music theory but i’m familiar enough to know some stuff is going on here, haha. its super interesting to me. no worries about the language - this is the only Tlingit i know and i’m just barely starting to learn my own language :stuck_out_tongue:

3 Likes
#59

also dead on re: the English verse :slight_smile:

#60

Hi all! i’m still learning to tune or identify notes by early (a long struggle i put off for years) and i’m trying to transcribe a few traditional songs to guitar - hoping to get it done quickly as a gift to an elder of mine and i was hoping that there was an app or webpage with a decent microphone driven tuner i could use to at least find a few root notes in some songs to build the guitar composition up from. I’m also new to transcribing and playing guitar past a rudimentary level so i’m surethis will be an arduous process, ha. I appreciate any good resources!
for anyone curious i’m trying to transcribe this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bobkReQYon0

Ch’íthometsél

1 Like
#61

Ear training and transcribing are well worth sticking with. Aside from just sitting there with a guitar and trying to work out the main vocal melody, and writing it down, I found this Justin Guitar Ear Training app really helpful for identifying intervals (scroll down to the bottom):

The more you do it, the easier it becomes.

I’m also relatively new to serious guitar practise, so wish you well on your journey! Lovely vid/song by the way.

2 Likes
#62

Transcribe is a pretty great tool to help with this sort of thing. It can slow down sections, loop them, and also help you identify pitches. I used to use it a lot back when I was a student. It costs a bit of money but it has a 30 day free trial.

#63

She’s having a hard time staying in one key or scale. She’s trying to sing in a major pentatonic scale, and occasionally succeeding, but failing a lot. For a beginning transcriber, it would be a lot easier to start taking something down by a better musician.

#64

Kwakwa̱ka̱ʼwakw songs don’t follow a pentatonic scale

5 Likes
#65

I’ll take your word on that; I don’t know this style. My point is that it will be very difficult for a beginner to transcribe that performance because she’s all over the place.

That said, if that’s what you want to transcribe, go for it. You can do it. The very first transcription is like pulling teeth anyway, but like anything it quickly gets much easier the more you do. Apps that can loop sections and slow them down will be a big help. Audacity is a free one.

#66

@laihalll

in the first repeat, the performer seems to be learning/remembering the song, and/or searching for the key; then they are quite consistent from about 1:20 on. there is also another performance with a low male voice that may be easier to follow.

so, gonna disagree here with @ElectricaNada that this is a difficult transcription project or even a “bad” performance (definitely not a “bad” musician, how rude… say “inconsistent performance” if you must critique.) it’s an unaccompanied vocal melody, within 1 octave, with repeats, and only 5 scale degrees. and you have a personal connection to it. so it’s a perfect exercise. just ignore the first two repetiions (out of 6 or 8 whatever.)

i also think this tuning is not supposed to be quite 12tet; the alterations to the 6th and 3rd seem consistent and deliberate, so maybe that is confusing.

below, i’m assuming that the song form is intended to be repeating and that the first two repeats are not exemplary. so, considering the first note of the song at 1:20.

for ease of discussion i’m going to assume that the “key” is G and the initial interval is ascending P5. so this opening G-D establishes the tonic and fifth.

[i always approach transcription as interval recognition first, and think in terms of scale degrees- even in highly chromatic or microtonal music. i find this level of abstraction helpful but others may not. for unaccompanied vocal melody, where all intervals are within a fifth, it just makes sense.]

starting from the opening fifth, it goes pretty easily. in my brain, it helps to break things up into figures, and then determine ther relationships, using some easily-identified figures as milestones; e.g.:

  • the repeated, descending whole-note figure that ends back on the tonic, at 1:28 and elsewhere

  • the low note of the melody, which anchors a transposed version of the opening figure near the end of the pattern (1:45, etc). the transposed figure ends back on the tonic and the low note is the fifth again.

so yes, this can be analyzed as a major-pentatonic melody. (on first hearing, i first tried to analyze the first two repetitions as a chromatic / microtonal thing, which was interesting! but probably wrong.)

anyways after identifying “milestones” it goes pretty easily and you get something like this:

(actually i’ll hide the specifics in case you want to give it a go yourself, first, and compare)

melody
melody895×85 19.8 KB

i’m not really sweating the rhythm at this point. i’m just assuming a steady 5/4 and that the drum pattern is something like this:

rhythm

i am not familiar with the performance style - vocal / drum downbeat relationship seems loose, which could be more or less deliberate - and locking into a time signature is often problematic for styles of music that dont use a rhythmic grid in the first place. (like, i’m almost certain that my depiction of the durm pattern isn’t “correct” by its own terms - the “4th beat” is contracted, for example - it’s just a way to reconcile with western notation.) given that, i think simplification is fine with the caveat that metric placement should be taken with a grain of salt.

(there’s a long and interesting tangent here on the history of “folk” music transcription - choosing the right level of “quantification” is really an art in itself.)

(notes about typesetting)

i used lilypond to typeset this quickly. lilypond is a free program and markup language for music notation, and is very convenient if you happen to be comfortable with those paradigms. there is a web editor here http://lilybin.com/

the melody in lilypond looks like this:

\relative {
\time 5/4
r1 g'4 
d'1 (e8 d) 
b4 a2. b8 (a) 
g4 g2. b8 (a)
g4 a2 (g4) r4
g4 e d d g
e4 d2 r4 d4 
a'1 (b8 a8)
g4 g2 r4
}
11 Likes
#67

Please don’t attribute straw men to me.

#68

Perhaps also responding to the sonorities of the drum… just like stretched piano tuning (which can be ‘off’ as much as 50 cents between the extremes) – but adapted to the moment.

This adaptation is probably why it takes a few repetitions to settle. I hear this not as an error but as a musical process working itself out.

A ‘bad’ performance would be one that ignores the other instruments, the audience, the grounding silence and other (immaterial) aspects of musical space.

3 Likes