#6

Same.

The important thing is to try to work on something every day, ideally at a certain time. And for me, I don’t like to work on the same project every day, or I obsess over details and never get anything done.

Children also mean that you have to segment yourself. I prefer the late night hours for personal work.

I actually know a designer who is really a painter. Design work can sap his creative energies, but it’s a source of money to support his real work.

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#7

In my case – complete separation. It’s not a healthy circumstance and has led to a lot of negativity.

Work is probably the easiest element to separate. Long ago I was fortunate to find something that I could do. While I never really had an interest in the work, it allowed me to escape from some really difficult circumstances. Sure, it’s tough dealing with the “true believers”, but as long as I don’t confront the horror of looking too far beyond the present, I can manage.

The idea of going back to school and pursuing something I actually care about is too remote, so I try not to think about it. I remember where I came from and why things ended up the way they did.

Outside of work is where things get really difficult. I’m split between communities that simply don’t communicate due to deep-seated cultural issues, and I feel inadequate to the task of opening up ways of communication. And then I’m forced into the mode of constantly having to think through these broader issues, which essentially becomes a third thing.

Indeed, I really could simplify things by giving up music. Something, however, keeps calling me back, and that something is not exactly hope. Rather than give up music entirely, I’ve more or less taken it “private”, if it ever was anything more than that.

So I can’t offer answers – I can only describe challenges and the ways in which I’ve failed so far to address them. Hopefully others fare better, and I can learn something from them.

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#8

I’ve been a musician since the mid 60s. I also work in graphics, video, coding, and architecture. While I am a professional musician, I also have a day job. I have been a professor of architecture for thirty odd years… and I’ll probably die on the job😁
Before the professorship, things were pretty much in their various silos. Since, they flow together in one big mix of ideas. Architecture is one of the areas where there is a long history of blending influences from all over the art and technology worlds. I’ve been lucky.

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#9

As a student of (partially) architecture I’d be fascinated to hear your thoughts on how music and architecture intersect (but maybe that’s better in another thread?)

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#10

Sound is everything for me. I’m an acoustic engineer by trade. For hobbies I do post-production for audio projects and podcasts. I also release modular synth albums and have a youtube channel about modular synthesis. Each one of those rolls into the other in some capacity.

All of those things are facets of me as a person, they’re all mushed into one melange of my life. My theory is that the outside world can take bits and pieces as they wish. There are a few people at work that know about my artistic endeavors. They generally write them off as eccentric at worst, so I’m not too worried. It’s all “me”, I don’t feel any compelling reason to separate them out. I don’t do much on social media, if that matters.

The interesting part of the original question is that it seems to be concerned with the perception of external parties. Maybe I’m being glib, but that’s on them.

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#11

Perception of others can have material consequences though.

In particular, those of us who have always had to rely on back channels, who’ve always had to negotiate various forms of precarity are often made intimately aware of this.

Sometimes the proverbial tomato is actually a stone, and they do hurt.

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#12

Definitely think about this constantly. I’m a graphic designer/creative director (like many here it seems!), visual artist, and musician, and while my career only occasionally incorporates the latter, it still happens from time to time. So for me, the distinction is less between the disciplines I work in, and more from the standpoint of the context of any creation. I don’t have a separate portfolio for the things I’ve made in my professional career and my personal, artistic career, because my philosophy is that if I represent myself precisely and solely in the way I want to (and, as a freelancer, the kind of work I want to do), then I will gradually inhabit only those modes of working and making income. Of course I frequently work on things at my job that I don’t care about or aren’t proud of, but I simply don’t show those as “my” work. But I am also keenly aware that some of those projects are of more interest to some people, ex. more in business contexrts. It’s a constant negotiation. But when I can, I try to be only me, and represent only the person I hope to be. Slowly but surely I’m finding that things are drifting in that direction.

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#13

I’m genuinely interested to hear more about this so I can understand it better. (I’m also not familiar with the tomato aphorism.)

#15

I’m wrapping up a 35+ year career in mainframe programming and my primary artistic outlet over these decades has been writing (mainly poetry), and photography. The beauty of the poetic muse is that it can alight at the most unusual moments. Many a poem has been written at my desk, or out in a hallway at work. Photography can be pursued in small segments during the workday if the inspiration is there and the object of photography is nearby (I’ve shot architectural photos on my lunch hour). Music, which has captured my soul late in life cannot be pursued at work. Requiring instruments (mine are modular in nature), they beg to be handled, and thus cannot be pursued at work, or during the workday. So, I’d say music is quite a silo. It requires a focus of time and effort and remains in its own domain. My hope is that retirement will bring a greater integration of music and lived experience.

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#16

I think this aspect varies depending on the platform and context, for example sure, if someone signed up to your mail list for project X then they may not appreciate suddenly receiving info about unrelated projects…

Social media is a little different - I find following brands to be less interesting as they tend to always stay ‘on message’ (maybe in fear of your concern about what their audience signed up for, or maybe in fear of over sharing)

I much prefer following interesting people. People who share more diverse ideas than just promoting their project. If a band or muso follows me on twitter I will check their feed and more often than not it is just 100% full of promotion of their project and nothing else. No personality, no inspirations, no other interests. I am as interested in the how and why, their ideas and process etc than just the end result.

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#17

This is on the money… I am constantly repulsed by the endless shilling and shameless self promotion of some artists… particularly on Facebook…

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#18

Maybe another thread is better… but a couple of things to google.

Check out Iannis Xenakis, both as composer and architect. There is a whole lot there.

https://www.iannis-xenakis.org/xen/works/catalogue.html

Here is a link to a paper on rhythm in architecture…

This Ted Talk by David Byrne covers some interesting ground as well.

There is a ton more, but this should set you on the path.

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#19

I went to school for art, got my BFA, and haven’t made much “art” since graduating. I’ve worked in various galleries, museums, and art centers for most of my adult life, and every time someone asks if I’m an artist too, my usual response is “I don’t make enough art to feel comfortable claiming that title.” I’ve struggled to find the sort of work/life balance that would accommodate both an art-world job and art-making itself, and I’ve also changed my focus considerably since school ended, being much more interested in sound and process-oriented art-making. (Which is probably how I ended up arriving in modular synthesis.) I don’t consider myself a “sound artist” or a “musician” at this point either, since I don’t even own a portable recorder or any sort of recording interface to facilitate realizing any of the “art” or “music” currently floating around in my head. I suppose that’d be the first step toward feeling like I could claim and honor the title, wouldn’t it?

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#20

I can for sure see the separation going both ways. Music and to a lesser extent my personal photography, are not “professional” as well, albeit I try and practice them like they are. The practices of my profession and art are certainly intertwined in a way that I wouldn’t be able to separate my experiences, abilities, taste, etc just as you’ve said. My personal interests have worked their way into my professional work on occasion with the correct client but that is fairly rare and I often don’t see it going the other way around. i.e. I have a photo client that does dog boarding/daycare but in my personal time, I don’t tend to photograph dogs as fine art projects.

Do you tend to subscribe to the “do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life” ethos?

That being said from a process perspective if I dig down into a project and start creating but then think of all the other aspects at the same time, it slows me down to a point that I get stuck. Thus this more voluntary separation that I’ve created that I’ve so far found helpful. ie. Making branding for my music endeavors, album cover etc.

I wholeheartedly agree that design is not art, although a creative practice for sure. The turning on and off in the studio is something that I think I generally try and do as well.

I’m reading through the Music & Family currently, it seems to run along the work-life personal time balance thread which is very insightful. For the sake of maintaining focus, it does make sense to kind of bar that from this as it can be a whole separate discussion(as it already is).

#21

First, howdy neighbor haha. Seeing as your work is separated do you feel like that has driven you to try and incorporate everything together? I too struggle with the work-life balance aspect as I’m sure many do.

@Joseph
I do try and give myself at least an hour on my setup an evening and come away with a recording and unpatch afterwords. This seems to be a part of what the Music & Family thread discusses in length. Seeing as I am currently not in the same boat with children I can’t comment on how it informs what I do but I do try and be mindful of the time I spend with my wife as well as friends and other family members. I also agree with the design work sapping creative energies. It can happen, then again burnout can happen with anything.

@ht73
I can say I separated my personal beliefs from work to progress my career for a while and it was for sure detrimental to me in the long run. The “true believers” comment really is relatable. That being said those experiences helped me grow in a way that was exceedingly positive as far as my skills within my career go so it’s many shades of gray I suppose.

I’m sure being split between communities is something that is challenging although I do not have any personal experience to be able to relate. With that being said acknowledging the challenges you face is an answer at least in that you are considering and looking to figure something more out.

@hermbot
I’d say it is in concern with the perception of external parties as well as how you separate your process from other practices in the actual act of creation. It seems that you’re all sound all the time albeit different practices. Which isn’t exactly the same as I work with different mediums visual and auditory. So in regard to the perception of external parties I’m not as certain they all fit under the same roof, I mean they clearly could but do I want them to? How would that effect the people viewing it? Would it be beneficial to them?

@jrdnrndl I’m not a freelancer(although I do pick up side gigs often) and work in a corporate environment. I make plenty I’m not interested but fit professionally and is good work, thus I ended up making a separate professional portfolio. As you said they are of more interest to folks in business contexts and I try and display it in a way that is defined for what I can do professionally. The negotiation has been real.

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#22

I think that segmenting yourself, as in your time, can be useful in helping complete things and give structure. Recently, I’ve found myself getting stuck in “finishing” ruts and it has been difficult to manage everything in the context of other projects, ideas, shows, life responsibilities, etc. The thing that seems to get thrown out most often as it is “lower priority” is making art for the fun of it, and that’s no good, because then I just get tired and aggravated with all the projects that are lining up. I think I’m going to try to set aside a specific day/time a week for doing that.

I think segmenting your “persona” is difficult and complex. I really don’t have a good answer, other than I try to be sort of routine about it, and share the things that I either find interesting and share in the hopes that someone else might find it interesting, or a sense of promoting it out of respect for the venue allowing for the show to be put on, touring acts that might be coming through town and need to pay for gas, etc.

Want to preface this particular point by saying I might be misunderstanding the particular context you mean @eblomquist (and could definitely see how some types of promotion and advertisement can be toxic), but I don’t think it is shameful to promote yourself/your art. I feel like capitalism makes it easy for a lot of us to hide behind a corporation or institution (because it is a normative way to make $$$) and cast a more critical lens onto the ethics of those that are trying to get by/make a living/rely some part on their art.

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#23

I do try to, though it’s not that easy.
I mean, work is work, and it brings along a whole lot of “accessory” activities which one might not love much (for example tax work / beaurocracy or having to sort out divergencies with clients).
But I find that if I am passionate about at least one aspect of a project, these become very tolerable.
I sometimes accept jobs because they are well paid but even then there needs to be something about them I am at least a bit passionate about.

One rule I gave myself is to only work on stuff that is somehow related to music. I still do pretty diverse stuff, from festival communication to cover illus. But I find that the fact that it’s always somehow about music keeps me passionate and motivated. I’ve spent many years working in an agency where we’d make big campaigns for stuff I didn’t care too much about, and that did wear me out on the long run.

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#24

I find it very difficult to separate thing but I also find the lack of separation quite uncomfortable at times. For example: I’m not somebody who shares personal things a great deal across social media channels so much of social interaction on the internet revolves around music. I am acutely aware that those who I went to school with or who are neighbours with me, those who I know in a more professional capacity (outside of music) and so on must probably be quite nonplussed by my music and it feels almost like I’m peeling back more of my outer shell than I’m entirely happy with to have those outside of musical circles seeing this aspect of me.

That’s probably stupid and potentially wide of the topic’s remit too but it was just what the post stirred up!

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#25

I don’t mean the kind of gentle sharing of awareness of the availability of one’s work that is common here on lines…

More the persistent email or Facebook shouting for attention without any pretense of creating a relationship…

I have deep respect for independent artists trying to support themselves, but in my experience those kinds of artists generally seem to avoid treating their supporters as “consumers.”

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#26

I’m a software developer for a living – generally in the area of tool building. First it was for computer games, and now for engineering. I generally don’t want to go home and write code.

There have been a few exceptions: I wrote some experimental VST plugins, with no UI and no support for people who had trouble running them. I made several watchfaces for the Pebble Time a few years ago. I’m comfortable working with Teletype, since its syntax and design principles are nothing at all like what I do at work and I keep my usage of it relatively simple and ephemeral – I don’t even save scenes aside from my standard “poll 16n and pass to ER-301” setup.

Sometimes I think about doing some more DSP coding – Norns or Organelle, or when the DSP layer of the ER-301 is opened up to third parties – but I’m really not very motivated to do it. I’d rather do creative things with the tools someone else built.

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