thank you—I wasn’t aware that one could chain the dual processor! that’s quite useful. I’m going to try the dusg filter patch. if I get desperate I was thinking of maybe using something like a parametric eq device as the next-best-substitute-that-I-happen-to-have.

The DUSG does work as a filter (and VCA, oscillator, envelope, lfo, and more), so you can do that.

The smooth section of the SSG can also act as a filter, oscillator, and VCA as well.

The Edelweiss panel is quite versatile, though it is more of a control and modulation focused panel compared to the La Bestia that is more audio focused.

That said, I’ve done whole tracks with just the Edelweiss and some effects :slight_smile:

You can also run multiple channels out straight to your mixer with a banana > 1/4” converter box or cables…

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Yes, but you would only want to plug outputs into your mixer anyway… inputs plugged into the mixer won’t do you much good :slight_smile:

Serge doesn’t differentiate between audio and cv signals. A fast enough cv is audio, basically. So any output jack can be audio if you are using it for that, and so any of those could go to your mixer if you want to hear them directly.

It shouldn’t matter. Multing/stacking an output doesn’t have any effect on the other stacked cables. You should get the same signal to all the destinations.

You can send any output to any number of inputs, the panel doesn’t know if one of those inputs is on your mixer vs in the system. This is true of almost all modular systems.

Do you have experience with other modular systems? If not, it might be worth looking up some tutorials or even trying some really straight forward patches to get the hang of the basic signal flow.

One thing I’ve been exploring a lot is patch-programming of comparators, usually with feedback around CV mixers or filters. These patches work either with the old-style (73-75) Triple Comparator or the modern NCOM (divide-by-N/comparator).

Basically, the lowly comparator can be turned into a one-bit memory element, a voltage divider, or an oscillator, among many other things.

The “voltage divider” itself leads to a variety of uses, such as a preamp or a buffer. The oscillator can interact with another, conventional oscillator to form a “complex oscillator” with unique timbral characteristics.

First — the “memory element” — this happens with positive feedback — patching the output into the “+” input.
C2SimpleMemory

Consider applying various voltages to the “-“ input. If the comparator is “off” (that is, outputting 0V), the feedback has no effect. Any voltage less than 0V will turn the comparator “on”, because the voltage at the “+” input is 0V.

Once the comparator is “on”, the voltage at the “+” input is 5V. So the voltage at the “-“ input has to be raised above 5V to turn the comparator off.

This patch is already a memory element. If the “-“ input voltage is between 0-5V, the comparator will remember its previous state. Below 0V, the comparator will turn on; above 5V it will turn off.

Here’s a more useful version of this “memory” patch.
C2KnobLatch

This involves an external CV Processor (mixer) used for scaling, such as the Dual Processor. Feedback from the comparator output is scaled by half (0.5). The -3.75 voltage offset may be set either on the Processor or the comparator (as shown).

With this patch, an input voltage (IN) between 0 and 1.25 V turns the comparator off, between 3.75 and 5V turns it on, and between 1.25 and 3.75 V leaves it in its previous state.

I use this method to make the knob positions of one sequencer control the up-down status of another sequencer, which is useful for live sequencing through knob adjustments alone.

Second — the voltage divider. This involves negative feedback — patching the comparator output to its “-“ input, again through a CV processor. The scaling on the feedback input is variable – but should always be positive (α > 0).

C2Gain

What happens in this case is very surprising.

Negative feedback makes the comparator output values between 0 and 5V, which it shouldn’t be able to do. In fact, without the feedback, it is impossible for the comparator to output these values.

However, the behavior makes sense when thinking of the comparator another way — as an “infinite gain”. Consider the following diagram.

C2NegativeMath

The function of the comparator is split among two blocks: the summer (+/-) and gain (K), where K becomes infinite. There’s another gain block in the feedback path (α), which represents the contribution of the CV processor.

We can express the output in terms of the input, as follows: y(t) = K(x(t) - αy(t)). Rearranging, y(t) = Kx(t)/(1+Kα). If K →∞ then y(t) = x(t)/α.

The multiplier in the feedback path has been converted into a divider. The only catch is that we still have the clipping between 0-5V.

Application — Lo-fi Preamp

While we can’t remove the clipping entirely, we can use a pair of CV mixers (Dual processors) to make the comparator symmetric, that is, to clip between -5V and 5V. This makes the divider patch suitable for audio inputs.

From this we can make a preamp, although it’s not very high quality due to noise and other non-ideal characteristics. In theory, when the feedback gain is very small (α = .001), amplification will be large (y(t)/x(t) = 1000). But in practice this works only for gains of about 10 (α = .1), beyond that the “preamp” becomes a distortion device, even though the output signal level is well within ±5V.

Still, this could be enough gain to amplify low-level external signals, and the distortion is interesting on its own, something like that of a battery-operated device where the batteries have run low.

In “distortion” mode, it’s interesting to adjust the comparator offset — this can often yield a better tone.

C2Preamp

Application — two-quadrant divider

Division can be made dynamic (a “two-quadrant divider”) by substituting a linear VCA in place of the CV Processor. Here the input, x(t), can be an audio signal (bipolar). The control, y(t), must be unipolar (y(t) > 0). This patch computes the ratio: x(t)/y(t). The result clips between +/-5V.

However, it’s very important that the VCA accept control signals or “DC” at both inputs — if the VCA is audio only, or “AC”, the patch will not work, because essentially a highpass filter will have been inserted in the feedback path.

Either the 73-75 VCA or the modern Active Processor can be used here. With the 73-75 VCA the feedback signal must be patched to the “DC” input. With the Active Processor, the feedback signal is patched to “In 2” and the control to “VC Xfade”.

While many modular systems offer two-and four quadrant multiplication, through VCA’s and ring modulators, it’s rare to see division of two signals, outside of analog computers.

Application — voltage buffer (unipolar)

Finally, a “boring” application - a unity gain (clipped between 0-5V) with α = 1.

C2Buffer

Here the CV attenuator is not needed: the comparator output is fed directly back into its negative input.

The use of this patch (abiding the 0-5V limitation) is to “buffer” voltages to prevent a voltage drop when connecting an output to more than one input.

Modern Serge systems already have buffered outputs, so this patch isn’t needed for those systems.

For the 73-75 systems, however, it is indeed one of the most critical and essential patches for tonal music, because none of the modules are buffered. When a sequencer bank output is connected to an oscillator and then to additional modules you have to retune the oscillator each time a new connection is added or removed. The buffer eliminates the need for this retuning.

Third — the oscillator. This is a variant of the negative feedback patch. Suppose, instead of directly feeding back the comparator output into the negative input, we patch it through a lowpass filter, and also introduce a positive offset (usually quite high, around 5V):

C2Oscillator

As long as a few requirements hold, this creates a system for which the “linear part” (considering the comparator again as an infinite gain) is oscillatory, but unstable. Fortunately, many of the Serge filters (e.g. 73-75 filter, VCFQ, etc.) satisfy these requirements:

  • The filter must be suitable for control well as audio signals (no AC-coupling)
  • The filter must not invert the phase of the signal.
  • The filter must be at least second-order (two-pole) to produce oscillation. First-order systems, even nonlinear ones such as slew limiters, cannot produce any oscillation.
  • No resonance is needed. The best-sounding effects are always with resonance at zero.
  • The comparator offset must be adjusted somewhere in its positive range, usually +5V to get the best sounding result. For most values of this offset, the patch will not oscillate.

hen this combination of nonlinear clipping and unstable/oscillatory linear part produces a stable oscillator.

The frequency of the oscillator is controlled by the filter cutoff.

The result sounds much like a square wave, while not quite as “bright”. The oscillator is remarkably consistent in both amplitude and tone over the entire audio range.

The complex oscillator

More interesting behavior results when patching the output of another oscillator to the comparator’s “+” input. A unipolar sawtooth works best, and for best results it should be scaled by half (0-2.5V) using a CV processor. The CV processor offset can also be adjusted for some fine-tune timbral control. The result vaguely resembles hard sync, as if the oscillator controlled by the filter cutoff is now synchronized to the input. However, there’s also a “growl”, something like a combination of hard sync and FM. It’s difficult to describe.

C2ComplexOscillator

An open challenge (something I’ve not tested), is to pre-amplify an external signal, for instance guitar, drum machine or radio — possibly using the comparator-based preamp patch previously discussed — and then feed the result into this “complex oscillator” system, in place of the sawtooth.

The result may yield a totally new type of distortion effect, where an oscillator tries to synchronize to an incoming signal. I don’t know of such effects other than the rare/expensive “PLL” pedals which I have not tried personally. But this implementation has nothing to do with PLL or even hard sync, so it will likely sound very different.

Anyway, I hope this set of “comparator studies” helps us get a lot more out of this module, and I’ll be happy to answer questions! Comparators are indeed useful for a lot more than PWM and trigger pulses. Happy patching!

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Wonderful post! Going straight to the top of my ‘Comparator Wizardry’ file.

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Thank you for the informative post. I was wondering if the Toppobrillo sport modulator comp will work in those patches ?

If it’s an analog comparator, and just a comparator, these patches should work.

If there’s another implementation, such as DSP, then the positive feedback applications (Schmitt trigger) should work, but you’ll have trouble with everything else. Also keep in mind that audio mixers cannot be substituted for the CV mixers. That is, the mixer has to be able to handle DC.

Unfortunately, the Toppobrillo as I seem to understand it inserts integrators in the path before the comparator, these may have damping effects at high frequencies, so it may mess up some of the audio applications like the complex oscillator and preamp – although you may be able to use the integrators in place of the VCF and so on. But I’m not sure about this as I haven’t worked with the module. And you may also find some more interesting feedback applications that make use of the lag processors.

Anyway, I hope this helps. I don’t have experience with Eurorack unfortunately.

This is great experimentation and definitely has that nice raw Serge sound :slight_smile:

What was your process like?

Also glad you see you’re giving Serge 4U another shot, hope you’re enjoying it so far. It’s a unique thing.

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Thank you! You are very kind. Regarding process—or, rather, an account of the process or methodology (thank you for asking!)—I unfortunately neglected to document the signal route used for each piece (I have a really bad habit of deleting and/or not saving anything after it’s exported to disk, trying to change this) so my recall is quite limited. Though several of the pieces focus on (‘study’) gate time and pulse width modulation, exhibited by several patch morphologies available once routed between SSG, DIVIDER, BOOLEAN, and any of the two DUSGs on the Edelweiss. For some of the pieces the patches would be modified a bit in real-time (re-routing clock-divisions, replacing TRIG I/O, replacing VC RATE inputs of RANDOM/DUSG/SSG, etc)—all the tracks are single takes—but e.g. the first piece is totally unattended. iirc, the fourth piece is the DUSG feeding-back on itself with different multed pulse divisions as VC RATE inputs. Last piece is eight-step SQ-1 sequence with stepped random cv via SSG used as its SYNC input with OUT of DUSG sent to VC F input. I might be mistaken about any of this, though, and I apologize if none of this makes sense. In most of the pieces I tried to exhibit isomorphism between variable wavelengths from DUSG and duty cycle of gate inputs (e.g. microtonal sequences with high intervallic redundancy as carriers for an intermittently fluctuating, lacunar—‘stammering’? I’m hesitant to anthropomorphize—periodicity). Thanks again.

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new custom thingy I’m working on w/Charlie… build not yet started.

I wonder if anyone else has had the CGS121 (the quad comparator/flip flop)? anyway it seems like one of Ken’s more interesting but obscure designs…

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Looks like a really intersting panel! I haven’t used the CGS121, but have the Gated Comparator in my SWAMP panel. It can be a bit enigmatic, but is brilliant for building generative patterns.

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Thought I’d share my new custom Serge travel cases. I had these built by a local pedal board builder, we designed it together. It’s a simple briefcase style case, plywood covered in tolex.

Each case is for two boats, mounted on rack rails. The case depth is 10cm on the inside, deep enough for a 3" Hammond boat, and plenty of space for Random*Source or other shallow boats.

The biggest custom aspect is that there are two XLR connectors on the outside of the case, wired internally to short leads and XLR jacks to the boats. I use Random*Source format for the power connection, so this means that I can easily remove the boats from the case, but have external access for the power supply.

The lids are deep enough to leave the panels patched (though not stacked cables), and lift off entirely for use. Lined with a very light carpet to protect the panel fronts and cables from wear.

I got two of these for my 4 panel system, and my SWAMP sits outside of them as a main controller.

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The idea is to have two sequencers interact in ways that are controllable from the sequencers themselves. I’m already doing this, but less efficiently, so this panel was designed to make this process easier as well as open up new possibilities.

Some main building blocks in this approach are:

  • Selecting specific clock pulses using a sequencer row output, via AND gate, linear VCA, or similar (many things can work here). the selected pulses are routed to the clock or reset of either sequencer.

  • Dividing down an incoming clock, with the division amount a function of the row voltage (usually restricted between 1-3x). Pulses are routed to clock or reset of either sequencer. While the Positive Slew already has this inverted pulse, the DSG does not so the END output has to be inverted either by a logic module or by second half-DSG.

  • Using a memory latch to set, reset or hold based on the sequencer row voltage (How to make a latch I described above in the “comparator studies”). Here a low voltage resets the latch output to “0”, a high voltage sets the output to “1”, and a middle voltage retains the previous output. The latch output is routed to up/down. Or it can also be used to select clock pulses.

So, simply by turning knobs I get different generative patterns. I also route the sequencer voltages to sound parameters to coordinate timbral and structural changes, as well as trigger envelopes with the intermediate pulse trains.

I usually don’t need more than five stages per sequencer to do something interesting, so I’m not bothered by the limitation in this design.

Of course, I expect the selectable stage inputs and outputs to open up new dimensions, which I haven’t yet explored as I don’t have anything currently that can do both.

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I’ve never got bored watching, listening to, or trying to emulate this patch.

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Love this patch - utterly beautiful and organic!

Beautifu! Just great!

fist one sounds like one of those cartoon score bassoons

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trying to increase the fictionally-modeled bassoon quotient

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Have you released this marvelous track? It’s stunning!